Victorian terrace - party wall cracking should I pull out of the sale ?

[sxturbo]

That's near enough if it was big enough

that was 70 years ago, would it still be causing issues?

 

[Victoriancracker]

Would a cctv of underneath be able to conclude anything with a degree of certainty ?

 

[^woody^]

that was 70 years ago, would it still be causing issues?

It may cause the initial damage, plus affect the ground. So then as nothing is tied, it could be prone to random movement at some future time.

There would be several factors at play, but the main consideration would be "has it moved since 1945?" or even more recently, and as that's not 1940's paper and emulsion, I'd say it has.

 

[kingandy2nd]

If you need a mortgage for this property, you may find the mortgage provider pulls the rug with such a serious property defect, and if there’s 100k of work to be done.

They may well put conditions on the loan where they withhold a proportion of the funds until the work that’s needed is completed. Which is a double-whammy for you as the buyer as not only do you not get all the money you need to borrow up front, you also have to find the money and complete the minimum works before you can get your full mortgage amount.

Like I said above much earlier in the thread, and others have mentioned since, if you need a mortgage you need to speak to your mortgage company. Any other activities you might do or investigate will all be moot if you need to borrow money and the lender is unwilling to lend.

If you are a cash buyer, then first off congratulations, and secondly that gives you a lot me flexibility on negotiation on a suitable price for the work.

 

[^woody^]

Would a cctv of underneath be able to conclude anything with a degree of certainty ?

You could be dancing around all week trying to figure if, why, and when's.

The issue is, are you prepared to buy it and then deal with any potential work and potential increased insurance premium and reduced mortgage release, and then be stuck with it at the whim of a future buyer?
That should be relatively simple to decide.

 

[Victoriancracker]

Like I said above much earlier in the thread, and others have mentioned since, if you need a mortgage you need to speak to your mortgage company. Any other activities you might do or investigate will all be moot if you need to borrow money and the lender is unwilling to lend.

If you are a cash buyer, then first off congratulations, and secondly that gives you a lot me flexibility on negotiation on a suitable price for the work.

Sorry. I didn't mean to ignore this as I'm certainly not a cash buyer. However I wanted to wait to a) speak to the surveyor and b) establish a more concrete answer to the issues before bothering to contact the mortgage company as we wouldn't proceed with something that has mortgage issues regardless and I'm very weary of using the correct language to describe the issue as we have already seen that opinion varies in extremities!

Thanks again for your advice so far.

 

[Victoriancracker]

You could be dancing around all week trying to figure if, why, and when's.

The issue is, are you prepared to buy it and then deal with any potential work and potential increased insurance premium and reduced mortgage release, and then be stuck with it at the whim of a future buyer?
That should be relatively simple to decide.

We bought this intending to renovate it, do a side return and eventually the loft.

This is why the state of the house outside of the structural issues isn't that big of a concern for us as we accounted for these costs.

But like you said, building insurance, future structural related work and mortgage release are the main issues however I can't be confident in addressing these without knowing whether the cracks are historical (even though like you said, the wallpaper may not be that old)

I understand this comes across as annoying because the surface evidence is awful, however I want to be absolutely certain that these issues arent going to be common as we search for an alternative Victorian property requiring renovations (we can't afford properties of this size that have been renovated if we want to live in the area of our choice)

 

[sxturbo]

We bought this intending to renovate it, do a side return and eventually the loft.

This is why the state of the house outside of the structural issues isn't that big of a concern for us as we accounted for these costs.

But like you said, building insurance, future structural related work and mortgage release are the main issues however I can't be confident in addressing these without knowing whether the cracks are historical (even though like you said, the wallpaper may not be that old)

I understand this comes across as annoying because the surface evidence is awful, however I want to be absolutely certain that these issues arent going to be common as we search for an alternative Victorian property requiring renovations (we can't afford properties of this size that have been renovated if we want to live in the area of our choice)

When did the current owners have their structural survey done?

If it is more recent than the date they bought the property it points to the cracks being relatively recent.

You are trying to convince yourself this property isnt a bad buy, and searching for someone to give the answer you desire. You won't get this speaking to surveyor s etc as they are all out to cover themselves, hence the way they word "it could be this or that". You haven't got the luxury of time to wait 6 months to see if the house has moved at all, as you will have needed to have bought it by that time, and this will only advise you of it is historical or not (which based on evidence so far is unlikely). You will then require further investigation to get to the root cause of the fault and remedy it, along with the caveats that's then associated with the "fixes".

Victorian properties can have all sorts of issues but no more than any other house you may or may not buy, so don't be put off from Victorian properties. On the whole they don't have as many issues as this one.

 

[^woody^]

knowing whether the cracks are historical

That is irrelevant.

What matters is whether there is ongoing movement, and clearly there has been - and there may be further movement.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

I know none of this is what you want to hear. This purchase will rule your life for the next 10 years at least. You've already committed a chunk of change (£3 or 4k maybe) to get this far so you really don't want to have 'wasted' that money.
But that 3k is chickenfeed compared to the potential uninsurable liabilities you could be buying. You already know the vendors will use alternative truths to unload the place so you can't safely believe anything they tell you.

 

[^woody^]

Should probably have been looking on Rightmove before page 2 of this thread.

 

[Victoriancracker]

Should probably have been looking on Rightmove before page 2 of this thread.

Sadly with the stamp duty deadline approaching, it's now a case of us staying where we are and cancelling the moves completely.

Haven't got the emotional energy to go through this again and find another buyer for our place.

Thanks for all your advice though I really am grateful.

 

[johnny2007]

Your buyer will wait if needed.
You can find a similar property without the massive headaches.

 

[JP_]

and eventually the loft.

This is why the state of the house outside of the structural issues isn't that big of a concern for us as we accounted for these costs.

You'd want to be sure this was possible too - if problems with movement then I'd guess that foundations might need looking at, and the cost of underpinning the house, or other structural work, could mean the loft conversion is not a viable option - maybe.

 

[Notch7]

Sadly with the stamp duty deadline approaching, it's now a case of us staying where we are and cancelling the moves completely.

Haven't got the emotional energy to go through this again and find another buyer for our place.

Thanks for all your advice though I really am grateful.

I would say it is likely the property will stay on the market for a long time.

every survey will come up with the same thing -unless the vendor strikes lucky and finds a buyer who thinks its not a concern.

the party wall issue is a massive complication -without that its a property that needs structural work, which may not be a deal breaker if you can buy at the right price. The party wall sets up potential for years of legal battles.