wall around shower tray

[helix]

trying to work out what I need to do to the wall around the shower tray.

had to remove some of the plaster to set the tray slightly into the wall, but seems the plasterer repaired the bottom of the wall where I had removed old skirting with plasterboard and then skimmed over.

As I removed some, the whole section of plasterboard came away from the wall.

What would be the best way to fix this? Should I bond out, leaving the required recess for the shower tray? Any other better options?

I'm assuming I can't just install the waterproof membrane and tile over such a large hole in the wall with a gap left like that.

thanks,
Alex

 

[seco services]

cut it level &
put a section of plasterboard in the bottom.

 

[dextrous]

What waterproof membrane?

Nothing to stop you replacing the board with further offcuts adhered into place. The trouble with infilling with bonding plaster would be the amount of time you'd need to leave it to dry - a few weeks, whereas plasterboard dabbed into place can be waterproofed overnight.

 

[dextrous]

Out of interest, having gone to the effort of making that parallel offset at the bottom of the copper pipes, who's idea was it to use speedfit joints?

 

[Richard C]

You can’t just tile over that. What’s the rest of the wall made up of, is it a conventional base coat & finish plaster or plasterboard? Are you saying your plasterer stuck a lump of plasterboard onto the bottom of a wall where the skirting came off & then just skimmed over it? If so that’s a bodge, particularly if he knew you proposed shower install. If he’d done it properly with Bonding & then finish skimmed, you could then just tile over it.

At the risk of ussetting dextrous & seco, do not be tempted to fill it with PB offcuts at the base of the shower, you will be inviting serious problems in next to no time.

If it’s a conventional plaster finish, can I ask why you’re proposing to use a membrane?

I can see pipes on the left, what are you proposing to do there?

 

[dextrous]

At the risk of ussetting dextrous & seco, do not be tempted to fill it with PB offcuts at the base of the shower, you will be inviting serious problems in next to no time.

Never upset when corrected if in error. Was assuming (dangerous word there!) membrane would suffice for water protection, and the op was looking for a suitable fillet

 

[seco services]

when the op says the whole section of plasterboard came away from the wall
does he mean it was dot n dabed or what ?

 

[dextrous]

Struggling to see any adhesive reside down there nor any tape joining to existing wall. Maybe he (plasterer) just shoved a bit of board in and skimmed it into place since he didn't have any bonding/adhesive to hand.

 

[seco services]

can't understand that gap either between the wall and tray by the waste.

 

[dextrous]

can't understand that gap either between the wall and tray by the waste.

Going to be fun decorating it/keeping it clean Like I hinted at earlier, can't understand why someone who can bend pipes would want to shove a pushfit on it when another couple of bends would bring the tails out to somewhere easier to work with, or at least solder it up! This, as you are well aware, grates on my senses

 

[Richard C]

Like I hinted at earlier, can't understand why someone who can bend pipes would want to shove a pushfit on it when another couple of bends would bring the tails out to somewhere easier to work with, or at least solder it up! This, as you are well aware, grates on my senses

Maybe the pipework under the floor is plastic

Things generally don’t look right around the tray, perhaps the OP is going to fit studding but then why have the wall plastered; without further clarification, were all just guessing at it

 

[helix]

Thanks all for the comments, most appreciated Apologies in advance for the long post!

What waterproof membrane?

On the advice of topps tiles, I'm going to apply this:

http://www.homelux.co.uk/index.php?l=product_detail&p=113

to the wall on the left and the back wall.

Out of interest, having gone to the effort of making that parallel offset at the bottom of the copper pipes, who's idea was it to use speedfit joints?

It was the plumber who did this.

Maybe the pipework under the floor is plastic

Exactly. Is this a concern?

You can’t just tile over that. What’s the rest of the wall made up of, is it a conventional base coat & finish plaster or plasterboard? Are you saying your plasterer stuck a lump of plasterboard onto the bottom of a wall where the skirting came off & then just skimmed over it? If so that’s a bodge, particularly if he knew you proposed shower install. If he’d done it properly with Bonding & then finish skimmed, you could then just tile over it.

Exactly, existing wall is base cost and plaster... he just stuck plasterboard underneath and skimmed over.

If it’s a conventional plaster finish, can I ask why you’re proposing to use a membrane?

Not sure, that's what topps recommended. Is in not necessary to have a membrane over conventional plaster finish?

I can see pipes on the left, what are you proposing to do there?

These will be boxed in with hardibacker, membrane applied, and tiled.

when the op says the whole section of plasterboard came away from the wall
does he mean it was dot n dabed or what ?

Yep, dot and dabed. You can see in the picture where it has come away completely where the gap in question is at its greatest height. Where it is lower, only half the newly installed plasterboard has come away.

can't understand that gap either between the wall and tray by the waste.

do you mean the wall on the left? There will be a gap there... approx. 300mm between wall and shower tray. The wall on the left is the side of the chimney stack. It protrudes approx 450mm from the back wall. The other half wanted an offset quadrant shower, so that’s what we got rather than building a false wall and putting a rectangular shower in which I probably would have done.

Going to be fun decorating it/keeping it clean

In not sure I understand. Is it because it is a small section of floor / wall?

Things generally don’t look right around the tray, perhaps the OP is going to fit studding but then why have the wall plastered; without further clarification, were all just guessing at it

The wall on the left will be boxed in, shower tray will set in left hand corner against wall on left and back wall. Back wall left as is, put membrane and tile.

Wall on right, pipes boxed in with hardibacker, membrane, then tiled.

Thanks again all, really enjoying learning about this stuff. This is the first time I've done a bathroom (with help of plumber, electrician and plasterer) but will definitely know what to look out for next time!

 

[Richard C]

On the advice of topps tiles, I'm going to apply this:

http://www.homelux.co.uk/index.php?l=product_detail&p=113

to the wall on the left and the back wall.

I wouldn’t use that; if waterproofing is necessary (& it is if your plasterer used plasterboard & then skimmed) I would use this:
http://www.bal-adhesives.co.uk/products/wp1-coating
much easier to use & probably cheaper.

It was the plumber who did this.

No comment.

Maybe the pipework under the floor is plastic

Exactly. Is this a concern?

Personally I don’t like plastic but if that’s what you’ve already got then not much you can do about it.

existing wall is base cost and plaster... he just stuck plasterboard underneath and skimmed over.

Why did he not just re-skim the original wall; plasterboard is not a good idea in wet areas & I always use waterproof tile backer board. Now you’ve got the PB you must waterproof before tiling.

Not sure, that's what topps recommended. Is in not necessary to have a membrane over conventional plaster finish?

Not if it’s a conventional block wall beneath; since you seem to have a mixture, it will probably be best to tank the lot out.

These will be boxed in with hardibacker, membrane applied, and tiled.

Not sure if Hardibacker is water proof or water resistant; if water proof, you dont need the membrane as well. I would have used Aquapanel board throughout the shower, then no need to tank.

Yep, dot and dabed. You can see in the picture where it has come away completely where the gap in question is at its greatest height. Where it is lower, only half the newly installed plasterboard has come away.

As said previously I wouldn’t have done that.

do you mean the wall on the left? There will be a gap there... approx. 300mm between wall and shower tray. The wall on the left is the side of the chimney stack. It protrudes approx 450mm from the back wall. The other half wanted an offset quadrant shower, so that’s what we got rather than building a false wall and putting a rectangular shower in which I probably would have done.

Your pics seem to have disappeared but what are you going to do with the 300mm, tile over it? A shelf around the tray is not a good idea; it’s subject to water flooding & unless done properly may eventually lead to problems.

The wall on the left will be boxed in, shower tray will set in left hand corner against wall on left and back wall. Back wall left as is, put membrane and tile.

Wall on right, pipes boxed in with hardibacker, membrane, then tiled.

Comments as above.

Thanks again all, really enjoying learning about this stuff. This is the first time I've done a bathroom (with help of plumber, electrician and plasterer) but will definitely know what to look out for next time!

I would advise you do a little more research before going any further as I think you’re making several less than perfect choices that could affect how long your handiwork will last. Read the sticky in the Tiling Forum & read through the archive posts. Have a look at the plastering Forum (where I spend most of my time) as well as this may also help explain a few things. Plasterboard & wet areas generally don’t mix at all well; at the very least it should be Moisture Resistant (green) but that should be tanked in wet areas or it won’t last.

Is the shower in an existing bathroom? If it’s a new bathroom you’ve formed then it’s notifyable & may be subject to inspection by your LABC. I hope the spark you used was Part P registered & gave you the paperwork? Have you got an extractor fan fitted?

 

[dextrous]

If it were me, I'd screw a few 2by1 strips of timber to the plastered wall and use aquapanel throughout. That way you won't have to worry about any gaps at the bottom nor applying membrane. This will cost less than the backerboard, plaster and membrane with adhesive etc.

Don't worry about me - I've just got this thing about speedfit joints. I am curious as to why the plumber used a mixture of copper and plastic pipework instead of sticking with just one (I'd have gone for copper, obviously, but its a matter of opinion). I'd also have considered making a minor detour in the pipework to have accessible isolation valves in that void by the chimney breast, which could be boxed in easily enough and help solve the forthcoming problem of how to get your floorcovering in there.

Would highly recommend you decorate tis gap prior to installing the shower screen.

 

[helix]

the walls are not plasterboarded apart from the bit at the bottom where the plasterer repaired the area where the skirting was removed.

If I remove the plasterboard and plaster properly then could I avoid using WP? This is just an academic question as I think I may as well water proof seeing as I have the stuff for it already. It the homelux stuff really so bad?

Can't really afford the space to baton and aquapanel because there is a door to the right of the shower area so cannot really move shower out further.

The 300mm area will be tiled on wall and floor. Nothing else will be there. Will definitely do this before shower enclosure goes in

The room is already a bathroom, there is an extractor fan and the electrician connected all the lights up. I just pulled the wires through the ceiling and got the parts in.