water ingress

[sartfell]

Hello all,

Right...I installed all the new windows (uPVC double glazed units) myself, and thought I'd done a good job ..until autumn arrived and now I have water ingress at the sides of a few of the windows . I fixed the windows using the clip-on side adjustable fixings, then expanding foam, allowed to cure, cut back and then mortar 3:1 mix with waterproofer, let cure then silicon sealant.....you'd think that would stop the water ingress, but NO!! It hasn't and now this is the third time of doing this ...I've used the right quantities of waterproofer...the house is 200 years old, 800mm thick walls and the units are halfway in the rebate...where the frames meet the sides of the rebate there is a channel on each side to where the windows fit in (40mm each side)....the mortar mix seems to soak the water in like a sponge and then it appears on my internal walls wrecking the plaster..what the hell am I doing wrong and how the hell can I sort this out!!! I'm going mad, 2 years now ...PLEASE HELP, I have no funds for a pro and am going into hospital soon for surgery on my arm so need to act fast...apologies for such a long post.

 

[biffvernon]

It's a sad tale and it really shows up the problems of using modern materials and methods on and old building. With a 200 year old house it would be much better to use the same materials that existed at that time. They were flexible and breathable.

You may not like to hear this but the real solution is to have timber windows bedded in lime mortar made from traditional lime putty and fine cracks sealed with linseed oil and fine sand mastic. These maeriarls will adjust to seasonal movements of the building, absorbing moisture and allowing it to dry out again harmlessly. The use of plastics, cement, and waterproofing sealants on old buildins often ends in expensive failure.

 

[carpenter les]

hi, sorry to disagree with biffvernon but i dont think your problem has anything to do with modern materials , its probably more to do with your application of them...although i dont know the answer without looking at the window im sure it would be obviuos to a tradesman if he looked at it !!! ...to add to biffvernons statement of modern materials i would like to add that i think its a missconception that the old ways are better , modern sealants are much better and researched than old methods ( trowel applied mastic etc ) , houses although much smaller than older ones are much more efficient nowadays , cost less to heat etc ... its easy to get mislead with rose tinted glasses into the past IMO ,

 

[biffvernon]

Oh Carpenter Les is right about the insulation. Old buildings were rubbish at keeping the warmth in (with the exception of thatch, perhaps), but that's not the point on which this thread started. It was about stopping water leaking around a plastic window frame 'sealed' with 'waterproof' cement. Whilst the label on the frame sealant tube may proudly bosst a ten year guarantee, had the 200 year old windows been repaired or replaced with new windows made and fitted in the same way as the originals, they could be expected to last for another 200 years. Modern building methods and materials are just not in the same timeframe.

However, we are where we are, and this guy needs some first aid. If the 'waterproofed' mortar is absorbing the rain and allowing it to soak through then it needs coating with a really waterproof paint. If there is a minute crack between the plastic frame then it should be possible to seal this with silicone.

 

[sartfell]

Cheers Gents

I've got a stonemason friend of mine coming up in a couple of weeks to take a look, gratis, I hope....I've been mixing the cement in a bucket with a drill mixer, and have been thinking as to wether this is adding air into the mix like mixing a cake mixture in a bowl, maybe I should be folding it in gently with a shovel on the floor...I really don't know wether this makes any difference or not??? If it does then I am a lazy git and deserve to have water ingress. Thanks again for your help...Matt.

 

[carpenter les]

hi , just one thing to add , have you thought of the possibility of condensation???

 

[JohnD]

One other possibility to consider - modern plastic window frames have a complex profile including channels for water to run down and vents for it to escape to the outside... could you have accidentally filled or sealed these? I get the impression that you mean it is rain penetrating round the frame, have I understood?

 

[sartfell]

thanks again....yep it is rainwater...and it aint just a little bit either, the inside reveals get saturated...doimg my flippin' head in.

 

[Thermo]

any chance of any pictures inside and out?

 

[Chabsy]

Did you seal the ends of the cill before you put the frame on it, or have you put the the window on the cill correctly, in most cases the lip on the back ( inside) of the cill goes against the inside face of the window not tucked under it, i've seen this done many times.

Also how far back are the windows from the outside of the wall, and what is the external wall finish, Render? Brick?

Photos would help too

 

[DIYnot]

Here are Sartfell's photos:

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4
Picture 5
Picture 6

 

[Chabsy]

I just read you other post about 19 windows, if you only have 3 problem windows the chances are it aint the fitting its the walls, it looks like the were sash windows and the box has bricked up this could be the problem and the plaster looks newish did you use bonding as an undercoat ?

Also it like like water has been coming in through the glazing beads its worth taking these out to check the drainage is ok and that they're not full of water