Weird hall light wiring

[Roger465]

As far as I can see, and not having been there to test anything, you need to do two things.

1. The 1st switch. this has two wires together in the bottm of the switch. Take one out and put it in the terminal next door to it.
2. The middle switch should be an intermediate switch. You'll need to buy one. This has 4 terminals.
The two wires at the top go in one each, and the two at the bottom (currently together) need to go into the two terminals at the bottom of the switch.

NOTE to sort your problem out you will need to do BOTH of these. Doing just one will not fix anything.

Now that I’ve got home, off the poxy phone and onto a proper screen, I think a penny has dropped.

I had assumed that the bunches of wires leading away up from the sockets involved he lights etc… but they don’t, do they… one wire at each end of the hall is part of a loop which includes the lights, but all the other wires going in and out of the switches simply connect the switches together?

So the live comes in as a single wire from the fusebox to Switch 1, which then switches it back and forward between the two lines which go up the hall to Switch 2. One twin cable coming down into Switch 2 is the pair from Switch 1; the other twin cable goes off to Switch 3. Switch 3 then switches between the two lines just like Switch 1 does, completing the loop via the lights, back to the fusebox where the original live came in from.

Am I right…? If so, I understand your fix – thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

That's it.

Simple when you realise what it does.

 

[Roger465]

That's it.

Simple when you realise what it does.

Most things are, in my experience... it's getting to that point that's the fun bit.

I mean, these forums are brilliant - I'd be lost without them - but it's very different from somebody actually showing you things

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes, as already depicted by EFLI, quite some time ago

View attachment 128278

 

[EFLImpudence]

Here is the full diagram.

I thought it best to concentrate on what you could see earlier.
Perhaps that was wrong.

 

[Roger465]

Perhaps that was wrong.

No no, not at all... I can understand circuit diagrams but, whichever version you posted, my difficulty was in relating the symbolic ot the bits of copper and plastic.

I've GOT to show you my other gem though, now that you've woken me up again...

In the utility room of this house of horrors, there are two – I think you called them “fused connection units”, one above the other. The top one isn't in use.

The bottom is wired to the washing machine down below, which works fine as long as you leave it hanging out of the wall (how it was when I moved in) and don’t touch it.

However, if you try to push it back in, it fizzes and crackles, and the neon goes out. If you move it around a bit, the top one moves too, so I guess they’re connected.

I’d like to fix it, so that it can be safely shoved back into its socket and forgotten (you can push the top one back in – I guess the previous owner pulled it out to see if they could see anything obvious, and left it that way. This would be fairly typical of their general approach to DIY). But obviously there’s a dodgy connection somewhere.

Obviously there’s no way you can tell for certain, but as you guys have what a doctor would call the “clinical experience” that I don’t, is the failure point more likely to be a screw connector, copper core broken inside the insulation, or what?

I’d happily take it apart and find out, but while I have lots of flex etc, I haven't got any bits of house wiring cable I can cannibalise to repair a wire if it’s broken…

Thanks again – hope I’m keeping everybody amused with all these amateur problems…

(1) the two units:

The top (unused) unit:

The fizzy bottom (washing machine) unit:

 

[EFLImpudence]

However, if you try to push it back in, it fizzes and crackles, and the neon goes out. If you move it around a bit, the top one moves too, so I guess they’re connected.

Just sounds like a loose or shorting wire.
It does look abit cramped in there.

Obviously there’s no way you can tell for certain, but as you guys have what a doctor would call the “clinical experience” that I don’t, is the failure point more likely to be a screw connector, copper core broken inside the insulation, or what?

Definitely something not making a good connection.

It would appear that the supply cable comes up from the floor to bottom FCU and then to top FCU with their respective loads connected.
So the top one could be removed if not needed.

Presumably the washing machine has a plug on its flex so the fuse in the FCU is not needed and it could be replaced with a 20A switch.

Do you know what the top one was for? Another socket near the WM, perhaps?

 

[Roger465]

It does look abit cramped in there.

Just a bit! And as I say, the wires are so short and stiff I’m afraid to pull them hard etc.

It would appear that the supply cable comes up from the floor to bottom FCU and then to top FCU with their respective loads connected.

So the top one could be removed if not needed.

See, that’s the sort of lateral thinking I just don’t do… remove it! Why not! That would simplify things a bit, wouldn’t it

Presumably the washing machine has a plug on its flex so the fuse in the FCU is not needed and it could be replaced with a 20A switch.

I honestly can’t remember if the output is a wall socket, or another sort of connection box thingy – it’s a while since I moved in now, but if it was the latter, I’d have snipped the plug off and wired it in…

Do you know what the top one was for? Another socket near the WM, perhaps?

Another socket at a higher level – I think maybe for a dryer or something. Not in use anyway.

 

[John D v2.0]

Agreed a loose connection, I'd also recommend removing the top one but first if its not clear what's loose worth trying isolating power, labelling all the cables, and removing and remaking the connections.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The live connection in the bottom picture shows clear signs of tracking. It's that black mark on the top.
The wires will need cleaning up before reterminating.
But have a good look at that area, if the plastic is cracked the whole thing will need replacing.

 

[Roger465]

The live connection in the bottom picture shows clear signs of tracking.

Your eyes are a lot better than mine!

You mean here?

Realise it may be impossible to tell, but... are the brown wires live in, and the red out to the washing machine?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes, I mean there. I can spot that sort of thing 'cos I've been doing it a long time!

Those three wires will be two for the ring and the third will be taking a live feed somewhere else (maybe the spare FCU above? Those three line wires will be on the FEED IN to the FCU. The washing machine will be connected to the separate LOAD terminals on the FCU.

 

[Roger465]

So I guess the load terminals will be on the bottom...?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Not necessarily. They are all laid out differently.
The terminals are marked FEED and LOAD on the back.

I think that the live LOAD terminal is the other brown wire on the top (next to the three other wires with the blackened terminal). The neutral LOAD terminal is probably lower down.

 

[Taylortwocities]

My guess is that the brown wire that is together with the two reds in the middle of the FCU, is the live feed up to the upper FCU. If that FCU is absolutely not needed, then you could completely remove that cable (live, neutral and earth) that joins the two together.

That would free up a bit of space in that very crowded box.

BUT, it really needs to be checked that my assumption (based only on a photograph) is correct.