Wet Rot

  • Thread starter Johnmelad502
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Johnmelad502

Was not sure where to post this so put it in here.

I run my own Handyman service and was asked by a customer to look at her living room floor as it was spongy just inside the front door and the foot of the settee had gone through a floor board in the front room.

What I found was so bad that I told the customer to get onto her insurance company and get them to come look. Unfortunately they can't send anyone around until Wednesday!

If the ladies insurance covers this (I suspect it will) they will no doubt get a builder in to put things right, not really a job for a handyman.

Have loaded a few pictures I took, up to my website. I suspect that the problem is caused by water getting in through the wall at ground level. The house is 120 years old and there is no damp course, and the pointing is in a terrible state.

Yes, I have put down a temporary floor (Sheets of ply) to stop them and their dogs from doing a disappearing act down the void :)

Three joists are completely rotten, the fourth and onwards seem to be completely dry.

Have now uploaded to this post as you can see :)

View media item 9457 View media item 9458 View media item 9459 View media item 9461View media item 9470View media item 9457
 
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Its difficult to tell from the photo but it could be dry rot rather than wet rot.
 
Its difficult to tell from the photo but it could be dry rot rather than wet rot.

There were signes of dry rot where some wood had started to dry out, but the spoors and roots were very, very small.
 
i think its on the verge of turning from wet to dry rot,if you say there is evidence of spores and hyphae then you have to treat it as dry rot(well i would)which is remove all timber 1m past the last outbreak of visible rot in all directions totally clean out the oversite spray with a fungicide solution and replace all timber as neccessary remembering to wrap the new joist ends with dpc and make sure all timber is tanilized and install some form of sub floor ventilation,but also bear in mind that if the insurance company do allow her to make a claim they will no doubt be expecting a guarantee from a preservation firm and may take you out of the loop.
 
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i think its on the verge of turning from wet to dry rot,if you say there is evidence of spores and hyphae then you have to treat it as dry rot(well i would)which is remove all timber 1m past the last outbreak of visible rot in all directions totally clean out the oversite spray with a fungicide solution and replace all timber as neccessary remembering to wrap the new joist ends with dpc and make sure all timber is tanilized and install some form of sub floor ventilation,but also bear in mind that if the insurance company do allow her to make a claim they will no doubt be expecting a guarantee from a preservation firm and may take you out of the loop.

f the ladies insurance covers this (I suspect it will) they will no doubt get a builder in to put things right, not really a job for a handyman.

Gregers, as I said in my original post, this is not a job for a handyman so I removed myself from the loop.

I don't want to end up on TV as one of those cowboy builders. So I have taken my own advice :) http://cumbria-handyman.co.uk/Cowboys.aspx

Regards to you and yours.
 
John - I've seen dry rot in buildings over a 35 year period and that's what you appear to have in your pictures - 99% certain. Insurance companies sometimes have 'wriggle room' to avoid forking-out for this type of work (they may invoke the 'building wasn't maintained' card) so it may be down to the client to cover the cost - just hope she's got a policy which covers the work. Gregers is right about insurance companies wanting guarantees (usually 25 year Lloyds types) so, if that's the case then it's in with the so called pros.

This type of work is well within the scope of the DIYer or Handyman but it would be lacking a guarantee and would be alot cheaper than the pros ... depends on how much the client can pay out of her own pocket and if she's willing to take a risk that the stuff won't re-appear.
 
If you can remove the conditions that dry rot requires there is a good chance of it not returning. Some specialist companies go a bit over the top with the work and can be very expensive.
 
John - I've seen dry rot in buildings over a 35 year period and that's what you appear to have in your pictures - 99% certain. Insurance companies sometimes have 'wriggle room' to avoid forking-out for this type of work (they may invoke the 'building wasn't maintained' card) so it may be down to the client to cover the cost - just hope she's got a policy which covers the work. Gregers is right about insurance companies wanting guarantees (usually 25 year Lloyds types) so, if that's the case then it's in with the so called pros.

There is some dry rot in a couple of places but it is at this stage only minor. I must admit that if all I had to go on were the pictures posted, I would say I was 99% certain that what I was looking at was dry rot.

The wood was just too wet for dry rot, over 40% moisture level and up close the colours seen are just chalk and dirt.

This type of work is well within the scope of the DIYer or Handyman but it would be lacking a guarantee and would be alot cheaper than the pros ... depends on how much the client can pay out of her own pocket and if she's willing to take a risk that the stuff won't re-appear.

I pulled back because although I could easily cure the problem (I know where the water was getting in) replacing the joists and floorboards would not be difficult and there are plenty of dry rot treatments I could have used, and I would have gone for joist hangers rather then put the joists back in the wall, I could not possibly provide a guarantee Worth the paper it was printed on.

If the insurance company do wriggle out of paying for the work and if the customer can't afford a proper builder, I will offer to do the job. But I would have to get something in writing that there would be no guarantee with the job.

Personally, I would not use me for this work. Even if I had to take out a loan, I would want that guarantee.
 
Unless your customer can give evidence of an accident (such as a damaged pipe) this water damage is going to count as having a 'gradually operating cause', for which the insurance company won't pay.

From what you say, she'd probably be better off having you doing the job as it's straightforward, just needing appropriate care. As others have advised, deal with it as if it has dry rot even though you can't find evidence of that; deal with the water ingress, provide ventilation, treat all cut ends of the tanalised timber.

One other suggestion I have is to provide one or two inspection panels (nothing elaborate, just screwed-down boards) to make it easy for someone to inspect under the floor periodically for reassurance that the problem hasn't returned. In my opinion, this is better than having a guarantee from a company that might not be around in future to honour it.
 
If you can remove the conditions that dry rot requires there is a good chance of it not returning.

That applies to wet rot.

Timber affected by dry rot must be removed, plus sections of adjacent timber, and the hyphae and any fungus removed from the area and the area completely sterilised - which includes brickwork and concrete

To the OP, dry rot will typically cause the timber to look dry and crazed - like it is charred (but without the grey colour!) there may be fungus/mushroom bodies and long string-like hyphae.

Wet rot will cause the timber to be mushy.

If it is wet rot, then removing the moisture source should let the timber return to normal moisture content - as long as it is not in contact with moisture to cause it to be permanently damp.

However, even if there is no contact with the wall to cause the timber to be damp, if the void is not properly ventilated, then high humidity can lead to dry rot
 
woody they both do cuboildal cracking,iirc wet rot is smaller,to the o.p if you have found eveidence of dry rot then treat it as such,1 spore can reinfect an area if left and bear in mind if you have a big fruiting body that can produce something like 100,000 spores a day ,and dry rot will even spread accross treated timber to find another food source and thus creating its own Enviroment to succeed that is the reason why preservation firms always seemed to overkill a dry rot job.you could always get advice from a preservation firm and if the client allows you could sub the work out to them so you can still earn a few shillings out of the job for your time.
 
cuboildal cracking,

WTF? :eek:

LOL

Yes, I was probably generalising too much, but IIRC it is more prevalent in dry rot

Anyway, some more generalising (and another obscure word) ... the mycelium of dry rot tends to be white, but black/brown with wet rot
 
[woody wrote]
If you can remove the conditions that dry rot requires there is a good chance of it not returning.

That applies to wet rot.

It applies to dry rot as well if you eradicate the problem. The dry rot needs to be removed for it to be able to return.
 
heres another couple of obscure words for you woody,

coniophora puteana

serpula lacrymans

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
You have a relatively serious, but not major problem (at this time) with 'dry rot' it gets serious when you have what appear to be oversized mushrooms growing (if you ever come across these don't be fool hardy and try and knock them off with a broom handle from a distance that you think is safe - the spores that are given off when these mushrooms/fungi are severly disturbed can have serious health consequences). It is clearly visible from the top right photograph that you have a 'rising damp' problem which along with a poorly ventilated floor void will be the root cause of the problem.
The problem that you now have is one of getting rid of the dry rot and I can tell you from experience that that part of the problem can be an absolute nightmare to get rid of.
As mentioned at this time you have a serious problem, but don't let it get out of control - when dry rot gets established it can travel up/down/across any surface it comes into contact with and is so virulent that it can even penetrate brickwork and travel between a brick wall and the wall plaster; another problem with dry rot is that once established it does not require a source of dampness it can survive and grow purely from the moisture present in air.

Thats the problems discussed, the answer - find a reputable company who specialise is dry rot treatment (perhaps other forum members can make a recommendation/s) to carry out all the necessary works. One word of caution if not removed effectively the dry rot can come back at an alarming rate - so don't cut corners and go cheap.

Regards
 

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