What, if any, regulations have been flouted on this install

[SimonH2]

Perhaps one "attack vector" there is to get the press involved. I'm sure the local papers would love to have a nice story to run along the lines of "the authorities keep telling me to put children's safety at risk". As a bonus, a bit of free publicity for this local nursery fighting red tape to keep children safe
I'm guessing that each time an inspector comes round, they ask why the sockets aren't covered, and start with some official line about .... Get them on a recording telling, or at least very strongly implying, that you must have these dangerous things installed - so you have evidence that "those nasty bureaucrats" are asking for them. Either it is official policy and something needs to be done about it, or there are people imposing "rules" that aren't supported by policy and something needs to be done about it.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Also - somewhere i this forum - someone posted a link to the (belated) official NHS directive telling all departments to stop using those devices. Sorry don't remember who it was. I gave a copy to my local GP surgery, and will check whether they have actioned it in the next few days (fat chance!).

 

[SUNRAY]

The release is on a yale lock and so an emergency door release isn't needed. .. However .....
I'm going back in a couple of day's to continue with another door entry system that the same company had "played" with, bypassing an emergency door release for a maglock, as it was activated by mistake, and they didn't know it just needed resetting, so they bypassed it !!!! In "playing" further also seemed to damage the intercom door release circuit too !!!! (Looks for cowboy emoji)

The original installation company were contacted today and advised of their shoddy and dangerous work (and would be sued if they didn't put it right) They were there within the hour ! I'll see what, if anything, they have done to correct the system this thread was started about.


UPDATE : They have refused to correct any of it ! where to from here ....

So they have left 3 systems not working properly?
Is this company part of any 'check a trade' type of service?
Has the electrical work been certified?

I think someone suing the nursery for an electric shock would soon make things happen.
Check the nursery's insurance for faulty contractors etc

 

[rsgaz]

a link to the (belated) official NHS directive

https://www.cas.dh.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAlert.aspx?AlertID=102494

will check whether they have actioned it in the next few days

They ought to have done, the deadline was 1 Dec 2016.

Gaz

 

[stillp]

Try telling that to my Daughter!
The tick box is still on the inspection sheet!
Every time they come round she has to get the previous paperwork out which includes the printouts from here and the various links.

Mine too.

 

[JohnD]

NHS Safety Alert
https://www.cas.dh.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAlert.aspx?AlertID=102494

"Originator: DH Estates and Facilities


Issue date: 30-Jun-2016 10:01:08

Action by recipients:

• Care Trusts
• Mental Health Trusts
• Specialists Trusts
• NHS Regional Offices
• Learning Disabilities Trusts
• Mental Health & Social Care Trusts
• Ambulance Trusts
• Mental Health & Learning Disabilities
• Acute Trusts
• Community Trusts"

Information to recipients:

• Social Care Providers (registered with CAS)
• Ofsted recipients
• Other contacts
• Independent Healthcare Providers (registered with CAS)
• Clinical Commissioning Groups
• Special Health Authorities

Action category: Action

Title: 13A Electrical socket inserts (socket covers or protectors)

Broadcast content:
This Alert is issued to highlight how, in certain circumstances, the use of plastic 13A (13 amp) electrical socket inserts (sold as safety accessories) can overcome the safety features designed into socket outlets.

13A electrical socket inserts should not be used in health or social care premises, nor supplied for use in a home or residence. Any socket inserts currently in use should be withdrawn from use and responsibly disposed of.



Additional information: NHS England regional offices please cascade to GPs and Dentists

Alert reference: EFA/2016/002

Action underway deadline: 18-Jul-2016

Action complete deadline: 01-Dec-2016

Attachments:

• EFA 2016 002 Final.pdf

Cascade to:

• Dentists
• GPs

 

[JohnD]

Department for Education
https://web.archive.org/web/2016101...sinserts-in-early-years-provision-in-england/

A note from the Department for Education on the use of electrical plug socket covers/inserts in early years provision in England





In June, the Department of Health published an estate and facilities alert on the dangers of socket safety covers, which states that 13A electrical socket inserts should not be used in health or social care premises, nor supplied for use in a home or residence. Childcare providers have a duty to keep children safe. Although it is not illegal to use electrical safety socket covers, the Department for Education recommends that providers should take into account the advice included in this alert when carrying out their own risk assessment.

 

[JohnD]

IMPORTANT: This information applies to BS 1363 sockets only


The Myth of “Safety Socket Covers” - unnecessary and a hazard!

http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

"LATEST: NHS Safety Alert published 30/6/16
Barnardo’s advice, see Fact Sheets
IKEA withdraws their socket cover! See Review

Evidence to the committee reviewing the new Consumer Rights Bill - see Parliament website

Articles from Institution of Engineering and Technology
“Socket Protectors” & “BS 1363” (explains the importance of pin size)
Press: Daily Telegraph article
Original (2008) Institution of Engineering and Technology article "

 

[333rocky333]

Also - somewhere i this forum - someone posted a link to the (belated) official NHS directive telling all departments to stop using those devices. Sorry don't remember who it was. I gave a copy to my local GP surgery, and will check whether they have actioned it in the next few days (fat chance!).

Twas TTC i recall

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/nhs-bans-socket-covers.462346/

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Try telling that to my Daughter!
The tick box is still on the inspection sheet!
Every time they come round she has to get the previous paperwork out which includes the printouts from here and the various links.

She should write, recorded delivery, to the person in charge of the organisation "they" work for, demanding that they be dismissed for gross incompetence.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But then, maybe on the other hand, this is what everybody wants.

I certainly see precious little evidence amongst any of the contributors here, or those who run the site, that competence, actually knowing what you are doing, is a quality to be encouraged, let alone prized.

But I do see plenty of evidence amongst contributors here, and those who run the site, of the following:

• Ridiculing the advocating of competence.
• Ridiculing the provision of knowledge to enhance competence.
• Protecting the incompetent from criticism of their decision to press on irregardless of their incompetence.
• Protecting those who just CBA to actually think from criticism of their laziness.
• Protecting those who refuse to think from criticism of their nihilism.

So think on, everyone - the problems exposed in this topic are facets of your deprecation of competence, of thinking, of reason, of knowledge, of understanding.

 

[mwatsonxx]

But then, maybe on the other hand, this is what everybody wants.

I certainly see precious little evidence amongst any of the contributors here, or those who run the site, that competence, actually knowing what you are doing, is a quality to be encouraged, let alone prized.

But I do see plenty of evidence amongst contributors here, and those who run the site, of the following:

• Ridiculing the advocating of competence.
• Ridiculing the provision of knowledge to enhance competence.
• Protecting the incompetent from criticism of their decision to press on irregardless of their incompetence.
• Protecting those who just CBA to actually think from criticism of their laziness.
• Protecting those who refuse to think from criticism of their nihilism.

So think on, everyone - the problems exposed in this topic are facets of your deprecation of competence, of thinking, of reason, of knowledge, of understanding.

Translation into English required.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Only required for the hard-of-thinking.

 

[SimonH2]

Translation into English required.

Translation :
I BAS, have the sole right to determine what is sensible or correct, and anyone who disagrees with me is a ****
It's a reference to the fact that BAS has this one and only "true way" where no-one will ever, ever even think about doing anything without making themselves fully knowledgable and skilled in all aspects of the task proposed. He has this black and white view of the world, with no room for compromise.
Time and time again, someone will ask for advice, and his response is OTT. The problem as some of us see it is that while he has a point, he is so aggressive at pushing it that many people coming here and asking a question are never heard from again - so the opportunity to guide them in the right direction is lost. Some of us, while we would all like to see people learn and understand the subject, have decided that if someone is determined to go ahead anyway - rather than stand back and say "told you so" afterwards, would rather try our best to help that person mitigate the risks to themselves and others.
And BAS - to save time, I know you want to launch a tirade of venom in my direction for pointing out the realities of life, but just don't bother, we've read it all before in the many threads you've hijacked and destroyed before.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It is not you who is pointing out the realities of life, it is I.

I am the one pointing out that an attitude of tolerating incompetence, of denigrating opposition to it, of criticising those who seek to promote competence, of rubbishing the idea that lack of competence is an unsound foundation on which to build things, is what leads to situations like these.

It is what leads to "electricians" charging money for things they cannot do, and then refusing to correct their mistakes because "well, it doesn't matter if it isn't done properly".

It is what leads to Ofsted inspectors over and over again telling people to introduce hazards.

And it is not I who is at risk of hijacking and destroying this thread - it is you, with your Govian opposition to the idea that competence and knowledge are to be prized, and your belief that ignorant blundering about should be encouraged and facilitated, not criticised and opposed.