What must home sellers divulge to buyers about work done?

[DIYNotIan]

Hi all

(Apologies if this is inappropriate for this forum - please let me know if it is).

We bought a house in May 2010. First we had some major problems with the roof. Now it's the drains!!!

The house is only 18 years old and is served by a septic tank and soak-away in the front garden. The seller had lived in the house since it was built (one lady owner!!!). Apparently, at some point she grew worried that waste from the kitchen and washing machine (at the BACK of the house) were not reaching the tank sufficiently. She therefore had some work done so that this waste would be taken to a ditch/soakaway at the BACK of the house. It's along this pipe work that we now seem to have a problem, although we are still not certain of the particulars yet.

I foresee two potential problems. One that we will need to pay someone to investigate this further and potentially have work carried out. Two that the necessary clearances were not made with the Rivers Authority and/or building regs, and that the arrangement at the back of the house is therefore not legal.

I wondered if anyone can clarify whether all of this is our problem now, or whether the seller can still be held responsible if she had work carried out which was of poor quality and/or illegal (but never declared anyof it during the conveyancing)?

Many thanks

Max

 

[big-all]

unless they lied or misled you its fully your problem
thats why you have a full survey and your solicitor asks questions like "are you connected to the main drains"

not telling you something is not a crime you need to ask the question or investigate to find out

 

[DIYNotIan]

OK, but our solicitor sent her a questionnaire which asked whether she had had any building work done, etc etc. The front of the questionnaire says something along the lines of "all questions must be answered truthfully as the answers form part of the conveyance".

So surely the question was asked.... or does that not count?

 

[big-all]

yes i agree but who carried out the work if it was a builder and not disclosed then they may not have told the truth but you need to prove it

 

[DIYNotIan]

I think it will become more provable as we (literally) dig deeper!

Aside from the legal standpoint RE: conveyancing, would there be no recourse to her if it was proved that she had drains put in to take washing machine and kitchen waste water to a ditch/soakaway WITHOUT the necessary authority?

 

[big-all]

not complying with the law or relevant regulations will not give you recourse unless a deliberate lie then its the lack of disclosure to the question thats the crime

 

[DIYNotIan]

OK, thanks for the help. I'll have to see exactly what the questionnaire from the solicitor asked, and how she answered.

For arguments sake...... if there is no issue with the disclosure, and when we get a quote/investigation it turns out that the system is illegal - will it be totally our responsibility? Could we be prosecuted? Or we would just be legally bound to put the problem right - even if it cost thousands?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I think you would find the cost and stress of legally fighting for some kind of compensation would far outweigh the cost of actually putting anything right. I'm with bigall, you need to move on!

 

[Inky Pete]

What is it they say? Caveat emptor?

 

[DIYNotIan]

I think you would find the cost and stress of legally fighting for some kind of compensation would far outweigh the cost of actually putting anything right. I'm with bigall, you need to move on!

Each to their won I guess, but I'm quite happy to fight for things if i know I'm right (not that I'm saying I know I'm right yet. To many ?'s. But if I am.....).

Also, if in the worst case scenario we need to dig up the garden and install a new soak away system then i would imagine the cost will be quite high!

What is it they say? Caveat emptor?

Yes, I tried to "beware". That's why I gave my hard earned to a solicitor, who in turn asked the seller whether any building work had been done on the property. Surely that's got to count for something hasn't it? If not, should I tell my solicitor in the future not to bother with the questionnaire because it is a waste of time?

One things for sure in terms of lessons learnt...... next time a buy a house I'll get a full structural survey regardless. This is the first house I have bought and I naively thought that we would not need a full survey seeing as the house was so new. And look what thought did....

Huge thanks for all the replies.

 

[BigRobCanUFixIt]

we bought a house with drain issues which we werent told about at the time. After about 4 months living here a neighbour appeared informing us it may be blocked as his downstairs loo gurgles when the system is backed up. And said it always blocks in our garden!!!

we hadnt been told, but the survey stated that the drains and sewers seemed ok on the day he visited but recommended a full drainiage survey along with other pointers like full electrical survey and testing etc. But we thought we would save a good few hundered quid.

But then If we had it done, I guess we would of still bought the place maybe haggled some money off the price etc. But now we have accepted it as our issue.

But luckily since the 1st oct it is now thames waters problem and theyre out tomorrow to sort it out for free

Rob

 

[big-all]

MaxDread
i hope you dont think i was being negative i wasnt just more realistic

"home buyers report" should be renamed "will the building society get its money back"
home buyers report will not tell you off any defects it is only a survey at your expence its only purpose is to protect your lender
you should always get a full structural survey
i know its expensive but its your security it wont nessiserily tell you about bad drains lol but it will pick up on other problems

 

[Nige F]

A couple of pointers - the soakaway for sink/ washer is Illegal . - I`ve seen the pictures you posted of the drains , they`re barely a foot under the ground I`m sure there was never enough fall from the back of the house to the cesspool in the front .- A drain with just a sink and a washing machine is forever going to be a problem , I`ve seen that grey fatty sludge block up yards of drain run There simply is not enough volume of water to flush the sediment/grease laden water along- even if you got the run reinstated from kitchen @ the back to cesspool @ the front , without a WC on that run , you`ll have the same trouble the lady had .

 

[DIYNotIan]

Thanks for all the replies.....

Nige F, I was (and am) going to leave the building and drains side of things to another post and keep this more about the building regs, liability, etc. But suffice to say things are worse than I imagined when I made the previous thread as the water does not seem to even be reaching the ditch/soakaway, but rather coming out where the pipe crosses the corner of the utility room!

 

[DIYNotIan]

Hi again

I've had a look through all the conveyancing documents and have found the following....
__________________________________________________ ________

1. Property Information Form. States on the front:

"This form is completed by the seller to supply the detailed information and documents which may be relied upon for the conveyance process".

There is then a long blurb entitled "Instructions to the Seller", stressing how important it is that answers are accurate, etc. etc. I'm happy to write it out if it would be helpful.

"4.2. Have any of the following changes been made to the whole or any part of the property (including the garden)? (a) Building works. Answer: No."

Incidentally, she also had some major work done to the roof including a re-felt and new valley which she did not declare (and which was leaking when she sold the house, unbeknown to us).

"12.4. Is sewerage for the property provided by a septic tank or cesspool? Answer: Yes."

"12.7. In what year was the system installed? ...please supply copies.... Answer: 1993. Copies enclosed."
__________________________________________________ ________

2. Additional Enquiries Form

"1. Has the property ever suffered from any of the following: problems with the drains? Answer: Not so far as the seller is aware".

"3. Have there ever been any extensions or alterations internally or externally to the property? Answer: Not so far as the seller is aware".

"20. Can your client please specifically confirm that there have not been any extensions or alterations whether internal or external to the property since its construction. Answer: Other than decorations and other cosmetic alterations, confirmed."

Again, this mentions neither work done to the drains nor the roof.

"21. Please confirm that the Vendor has personally given or confirmed these replies and is aware that the Buyer will rely on the accuracy of these replies as a basis of any contract for the purchase of the property. Answer: Our client confirms".
__________________________________________________ ________

3. Property Information Questionnaire

"14. Have you carried out any structural alterations, additions or extensions to the property? Answer: No."
__________________________________________________ ________

4. Inspection Certificates, etc.

A set of inspection certificates for various stages from William H. Brown Professional Services. This includes Stage 7 - Foul and Surface Water Drains, as well as a Certificate of "completion" stating that the property was inspected at the various stages and meets their satisfaction.

There is also a letter stating that they had details of a percolation test (in accordance with BS6297; 1983) which indicated that a 30 metre length of soakaway drains would be required and that there was sufficient space on site to accommodate this.
__________________________________________________ ________



There may well be more but unfortunately I have to go to work now!!!!

Don't know if any of the information is helpful, standard fair or ????

Thanks again for all the help

Max