What's going on with this phone wiring?!

[greenstarthree01]

Hi all,

Just moved into a house and am trying to work out how the internal telephone wiring is done. Had cable at my last place so done very little with BT wiring in the past.

Facts:
There is a master socket and 3 extension sockets (though 2 of the exts are in the same room... I'll get to that!)

Our alarm system is somehow wired into the phone as the previous owner had a subscription for that. We don't and would like to disconnect it if we can as it still tries to dial out now and again, causing small call charges.

So the master socket in the main bedroom has two visible cables coming out of it, suggesting its extended to 2 different points. One of these must be the bottom of the stairs, where there's an extension socket. Haven't had the front off that extension yet but will update when I have. Here's the outside of the master:

The second extension must lead to another bedroom, where there's a weird arrangement going on:

A cable comes up from the floor to this small box, which from looking inside appears to just be a "one in one out" junction - the coloured wires from both sides are terminated in the same points:

From the filled holes on the wall, I think someone has decided they want the phone socket at desk level and put this junction in to do it (they'd also done this with a mains socket nearby)

Above, at the top of the trunking, we have this:

The larger socket (NTE5 I think?) has a removable lower half with no wires connected, and then further removing the faceplate reveals this:

Just two connections, blue with white sections to B, white with blue sections to A.
The other wires are punched through into the neighbouring extension socket, which looks like this underneath:

I've been able to read that terminals 2,3,5 connected is normal (though there's an argument for disconnecting the bell wire for better broadband speed), but the colour coding doesn't seem to match what I've seen anywhere else, and I've certainly not seen the A and B connections in the other socket anywhere! I know the colour coding doesn't necessarily matter if the same thing is done at both ends, but there must be some standard?

Does anyone have any suggestions? Could the A and B in the large socket be related to the alarm system?
Our router works when connected to the master socket or the smaller socket pictured above, but NOT in the larger socket with the A and B connections. This makes some sense as it's unconventionally wired (as far as I know) but I don't know exactly why!

Please let me know if more details are needed. Thanks everyone.

PS don't judge the decor.... we're redecorating!

 

[rsgaz]

Could the A and B in the large socket be related to the alarm system?

No, looks like the previous owner probably had a fax on a different number connected there, with the broadband connected to the normal house phone number on the smaller socket. If the alarm is making calls on the bill relating to your normal phone number, then that second phone line is unrelated.

The master in the main bedroom, how certain are you that it is the actual 'master socket'? Does it have a black cable coming through the wall from outside directly into it?

Pics of the alarm and associated wiring?

Gaz

 

[bernardgreen]

This is probably the incomer drop wire and the box is jointing the drop wire to internal for the two lines. Possibly as a retro fit.

Edit Two holes in the wall that have been filled in suggest the master socket was originally fitted here. Black marks on the wall through the holes of the master socket suggest the proces of moving the master socket was not completed.

and the incomer came in here.

 

[greenstarthree01]

Hi both, sorry for the delay, was away for the weekend!

Looks like the socket in the main bedroom (first picture in my original post) is indeed the "master socket" (at least it is now) - it has a black jacketed wire coming into it from the wall.

Also, if I take the front cover off that main bedroom socket (to reveal the test socket), the broadband, which is plugged into the second bedroom's smaller socket) stops working, and the alarm complains about having no phone line connection. So it seems that the second bedroom sockets and alarm's phone connection run from that front panel. However there are some other wires going on in there I can't claim to understand! I'll try provide pictures soon.

Thinking about it the main bedroom is nearest the road and the side of the house where the external phone cable comes in, so it would be odd if the master socket were in the second bedroom, as that overlooks the back garden.

Regarding the alarm, I'm currently looking into resetting and reprogramming it to disable the dialler, which would mean I can leave the cabling for that as is in case we ever want that service re enabled.

In either case, am I safe to assume that the larger socket in the second bedroom (with only the two blue / white wires connected) are not used for either the my phone / broadband (for which I only pay for one line) or the alarm? I'm looking to tidy the sockets up in there and would prefer just one phone socket on the wall if I can.

Thanks again

 

[rsgaz]

am I safe to assume that the larger socket in the second bedroom (with only the two blue / white wires connected) are not used for either the my phone / broadband (for which I only pay for one line) or the alarm?

Correct.

However there are some other wires going on in there I can't claim to understand!

There will be a pair of wires coming out of the black external cable joined onto a pair of the white cable which goes to the second bedroom, which is feeding that other line. So, not connected to the main master at all, just somewhere to hide the join.

So it seems that the second bedroom sockets and alarm's phone connection run from that front panel.

So, the two white cables in the first picture, one goes to the second bedroom and the other will go directly to the alarm.

 

[greenstarthree01]

So, the two white cables in the first picture, one goes to the second bedroom and the other will go directly to the alarm.

Oh, right. I was thinking the second must go to the other extension socket which is at the bottom of the stairs, by the front door. I've not had the front off that yet but if only 2 white cables come from the master, I wonder how the front door socket is connected?

 

[rsgaz]

I wonder how the front door socket is connected?

Ah, didn't know you had another socket!

So, the other cable could go the the alarm, then on the the front door. Or the other way round. Or even tee off under a floorboard somewhere. There's no real rules to how it should be done, especially in a domestic setting where everything after the master socket is owned by the homeowner, so DIYers are free to do any old bodge job they want! Which the previous tenant might have done!

 

[greenstarthree01]

Sorry, yeah, didn't have a picture of the front door socket before, but here it is:

Just one white cable visible from outside, but behind the panel there's a grey jacketed cable too, which goes into the wall:

i do seem to remember a cable running down the outside wall to somewhere around there (I'll check tomorrow when it's light!), and I do remember seeing a grey cable behind the main bedroom master socket too. Is it possible an extension has been done to the front door socket externally, hence the difference in cable?
If so, presumably the white cable from the front door socket goes to/from the alarm. But as you say who knows! Still, interested in anyone's input on that!


Anyway, I also took the front off the small junction box in the spare bedroom (where the double sockets are for the suspected fax machine):

As you can see it's basically one in one out with matching pairs connected to the same terminals, including the blue/white wires connected to a separate block. Does that confirm the use of a second line on the other socket?

My hope is that to tidy up the sockets when I redecorate, I can leave the junction box as is, and simply disconnect the blue and white wires from the larger socket, leaving me with the extension only connected as it is now to run my router (spare wires left disconnected inside). Planning to buy a phone wire insertion tool just in case something goes awry.....!

Cheers

 

[rsgaz]

presumably the white cable from the front door socket goes to/from the alarm. But as you say who knows! Still, interested in anyone's input on that!

On the front door socket, pull out the white/blue and blue wires that come from the white cable which have been put in second in the IDC slots. The alarm should then be disconnected and not make any calls.

My hope is that to tidy up the sockets when I redecorate, I can leave the junction box as is, and simply disconnect the blue and white wires from the larger socket, leaving me with the extension only connected as it is now to run my router

You can yes, but you could do away with the junction box and the mini trunking as well if you would rather have the socket mounted just above the skirting board like it once was?

 

[greenstarthree01]

RE: alarm - Since at the moment t complains of a line fault when I disconnect it from the phone manually, we’re looking into reprogramming it so that it doesn’t attempt to dial in the first place. If that’s successful I may leave the alarm wiring as is, in case we want to reactivate in future, as well as to avoid causing any other potential problems.
Interesting though - more likely that it’s wired in here, rather than the main bedroom master socket?

RE: the spare room sockets - yes sorry I could just re-mount the smaller ext socket back where it was. However I have a mains socket a few feet to the right that Id like it next to (going under a desk) and presuming there’s no spare under the floor, I may still need the junction!

 

[rsgaz]

Interesting though - more likely that it’s wired in here, rather than the main bedroom master socket?

Certainly seems that way. I assume it's the closest socket to the alarm panel, seeing as it's by the front door?

This extra grey cable has thrown a spanner in the works though, you have too many cables for the number of extensions you have.

Under the master, you can see that one cable is thicker than the other. The left one looks like a "2 pair" cable and the right looks to be a "3 pair". The grey cable is also a "3 pair" cable.

So, the white 3 pair is going to the other bedroom from the master.
The grey 3 pair goes to the front door socket and then another white 3 pair goes to the alarm.
So, that leaves the white 2 pair from the master, which seemingly goes nowhere! (another old socket that's been cut off in the past probably)

 

[greenstarthree01]

Yeah, the downstairs socket is closest to the alarm panel so that makes sense. And the grey cable does indeed come down the outside wall to the front door socket. So as you say, the second white extension from the master is a bit of a mystery. Perhaps when we raise some floorboards that’ll come to light!

This weekend, in the spare room (with the two-socket arrangement) I went ahead and disconnected the two blue/white wires from the larger NTE5 that’s not in use (suspected as an old fax). This didn’t cause any problems with broadband or alarm, so think you were probably right, and means I can get rid of the second socket in there.

However when I came to tidy up the connections (I have a punch down tool) I noticed the terminals on the smaller extension socket (in use for the broadband) don’t look like standard IDC phone connectors:

If you zoom in, you can see that the terminal blades are a sort of ‘closed loop’ of metal, which will presumably stop the punch down tool from pressing the cable in properly. I was trying to remove the bell wire from terminal 3 while I was in there and it’s very difficult to get out without forcing and feels like I might damage the socket.
Is there another technique with this sort of connector I’m missing to remove and rewire properly?!

 

[Europlex]

Give it a hard pull or cut it, no problem

 

[greenstarthree01]

Give it a hard pull or cut it, no problem

Sure, for the bell wire, but I think I’ll need to fully disconnect this socket and re-connect terminals 2 and 5 for the broadband - are these types of connectors compatible with the Krone tool?

 

[greenstarthree01]

Quick update, I was able to disconnect the two sockets in the spare bedroom, and while at it I’ve disconnected the bell wire from everywhere. (No effect on the alarm which is now configured to not dial out, but still connected as it beeps when disconnected).

The weird connectors on the small extension weren’t krone compatible, so I’ve connected the extension to the other NTE5s front plate instead, and that’s working for now. I’m planning to re run the extension using CAT5e all the way from the master socket (which means from the master bedroom, along the landing, and into the spare room), as we’ll be replacing the carpets with laminate floor. I’ve read using CAT5e is ok for phone extensions and a bit hardier than standard phone cable?

To do this, I’ll probably need to pull out all the existing connections on pins 2 and 5 of the main bedroom master socket. When I reconnect them up with the Krone tool, I presume I’m ok to punch them down one at a time, and punching the second and third wires into the IDC connector won’t damage the first one?