Not ideal for a permanent set-up.
Where/how to plug in my portable hot tub?
- Thread starter magictime
- Start date
Not ideal for a permanent set-up.
Sponsored Links
OK BAS, thanks. I'm going to have to think about this one.
What about the 'outdoor socket' kits you can get consisting of a plug for an existing indoor socket and a cable leading to a new outdoor socket? Presumably they're just glorified extension cords really & equally unsuitable for permanent use?
(I really don't want this to turn into a rewiring job if I can help it - it's only a few months since we decorated after the last round of electrical work!)
What about the 'outdoor socket' kits you can get consisting of a plug for an existing indoor socket and a cable leading to a new outdoor socket? Presumably they're just glorified extension cords really & equally unsuitable for permanent use?
(I really don't want this to turn into a rewiring job if I can help it - it's only a few months since we decorated after the last round of electrical work!)
We do have RCD protection - and as you say, if we didn't, we could just use the RCD plug that's on the appliance! The issue is just that once I've got the cable into the house, it won't reach a socket.
And yet you're still thinking in terms of a cheap and nasty bodge of a cable plugged into a socket in the house, exiting through a hole in the wall, and then what? Trailing around the garden?
From a 16A breaker on the RCD side of the CU, or (much better given what you'll be using it for) an RCBO on the non-RCD side, you need an armoured cable of an appropriate size given the distance it has to travel leaving the house, then running underground (at the right depth, with the right bedding in the trench, and warning tape above etc) to one of these:
or these:
installed somewhere where you can then plug the hot tub into without the cable getting tripped over/trampled on/damaged/etc.
Sponsored Links
does it need to be armoured all the way from the cu or just from the point it leaves the house?
Just outside - it may or may not be easier to have it all the way from the CU vs having it joined to another cable at the point of exit.
"And yet you're still thinking in terms of a cheap and nasty bodge of a cable plugged into a socket in the house, exiting through a hole in the wall, and then what? Trailing around the garden?"
Not sure I follow the objection here - surely the hot tub cable is going have to 'trail round the garden' regardless of whether it's ultimately plugged in indoors or outdoors? In fact I think it would have to trail further if it was outdoors, because then the socket would have to be a certain distance from the tub.
Yes, I know using an extension cable (or an 'outdoor socket kit') is a bit of a bodge, but I'm just trying to find a solution proportionate to the problem. If I was talking about a £5000 tub requiring a 20A supply, obviously I'd have to bite the bullet and spend a further £X00 on wiring (and subsequent redecorating) - but I deliberately chose a cheap tub that's designed to run from a normal household socket.
It's not even as if it's designed to run from OUTSIDE sockets (or presumably it wouldn't have an RCD plug?). Maybe I should ask the manufacturers what they have in mind. It's not as if everyone else has an indoor socket within 15ft of their tub! I suspect the answer is just going to be 'use an extension cable', but if that's not safe...
Not sure I follow the objection here - surely the hot tub cable is going have to 'trail round the garden' regardless of whether it's ultimately plugged in indoors or outdoors? In fact I think it would have to trail further if it was outdoors, because then the socket would have to be a certain distance from the tub.
Yes, I know using an extension cable (or an 'outdoor socket kit') is a bit of a bodge, but I'm just trying to find a solution proportionate to the problem. If I was talking about a £5000 tub requiring a 20A supply, obviously I'd have to bite the bullet and spend a further £X00 on wiring (and subsequent redecorating) - but I deliberately chose a cheap tub that's designed to run from a normal household socket.
It's not even as if it's designed to run from OUTSIDE sockets (or presumably it wouldn't have an RCD plug?). Maybe I should ask the manufacturers what they have in mind. It's not as if everyone else has an indoor socket within 15ft of their tub! I suspect the answer is just going to be 'use an extension cable', but if that's not safe...
"Re comment that "You don't need both an RCD protected socket and an RCD plug" - OK, that makes more sense! I thought I'd read that somewhere but must have made it up."
Turns out I didn't make it up - this is in the instruction book:
"WARNING: Insert the RCD plug into an RCD protected power receptacle only."
...so must that be wrong then?
Turns out I didn't make it up - this is in the instruction book:
"WARNING: Insert the RCD plug into an RCD protected power receptacle only."
...so must that be wrong then?
Nope - nothing trailing around the garden there.
Unfortunately the price of the equipment to be supplied has no bearing on the requirements (mandatory or advisory) for supplying it.
The makers want you to believe that, but basically you should not (as in it is not good practice, it is not advised, it is actually advised that you don't) run a load of that size, for long periods (which you will be) from a socket circuit. The advice, best practice, etc, is to have a dedicated circuit for it. You could have such a circuit supplying a BS 1363 socket, but if you're putting in a new circuit you might as well take the opportunity to use something much better.
I fear that what they have in mind is encouraging people to think that their cheap hot tub will be easier to install than it really is...
Yup, it's wrong.
"Nope - nothing trailing around the garden there. "
But we're talking about two different cables, aren't we? I'm talking about the cable attached to the hot tub, the one that needs to 'trail' a certain distance across the garden to plug into a socket. You're talking about the cable connecting that socket to the CU.
"The makers want you to believe that, but basically you should not (as in it is not good practice, it is not advised, it is actually advised that you don't) run a load of that size, for long periods (which you will be) from a socket circuit."
Can I request some clarification here?
1 - not sure what you mean by a 'socket circuit'. I'd read that as meaning a circuit with sockets on it, but your suggestion was to install an outdoor socket. Is that not a 'socket circuit'? (Anyway I thought the problem was using an extension cable, not a fixed socket?)
If it's simply unsafe to plug this item into a socket at all, obviously it's fatally badly designed (since there's no other way to power it!) and there's not much I can do other than cancel my order.
2 - when you say 'a load of that size' - I should probably spell out that it's not a 3kw load; it's just that I read somewhere that any extension cord used should be 3kW rated (or whatever). The actual load is 2300W I think - 1.5kW for the heater plus 800W for the 'bubbles' (which obviously wouldn't be on all the time anyway). Oh, and the filter pump uses about 45W I think. Does that make a difference?
But we're talking about two different cables, aren't we? I'm talking about the cable attached to the hot tub, the one that needs to 'trail' a certain distance across the garden to plug into a socket. You're talking about the cable connecting that socket to the CU.
"The makers want you to believe that, but basically you should not (as in it is not good practice, it is not advised, it is actually advised that you don't) run a load of that size, for long periods (which you will be) from a socket circuit."
Can I request some clarification here?
1 - not sure what you mean by a 'socket circuit'. I'd read that as meaning a circuit with sockets on it, but your suggestion was to install an outdoor socket. Is that not a 'socket circuit'? (Anyway I thought the problem was using an extension cable, not a fixed socket?)
If it's simply unsafe to plug this item into a socket at all, obviously it's fatally badly designed (since there's no other way to power it!) and there's not much I can do other than cancel my order.
2 - when you say 'a load of that size' - I should probably spell out that it's not a 3kw load; it's just that I read somewhere that any extension cord used should be 3kW rated (or whatever). The actual load is 2300W I think - 1.5kW for the heater plus 800W for the 'bubbles' (which obviously wouldn't be on all the time anyway). Oh, and the filter pump uses about 45W I think. Does that make a difference?
I'm talking about both:
Sorry - I meant a general purpose final circuit - one with lots of sockets on it.
The problem is that you should not have cables trailing around the garden. An extension lead just compounds it because you'll have a non-weatherproof socket somewhere in the garden. But the trailing issue would still apply no matter how long the flex from the hot tub was.
The problem is also that having a cable running through a hole in the wall and plugged into an indoor socket is just nasty.
It's not unsafe to plug it into a socket. On the basis that it was a 3kW load which would be on for long periods you should have had a dedicated circuit for it, but I didn't say that it was unsafe to connect it to that circuit via a plug and socket:
And anyway there are other ways - you could hardwire it into an FCU for example.
It makes 2 differences.
a) It's more realistic to supply it from an existing circuit. (But you'll still need to have an outdoor socket installed in a suitable location).
b) When you first fill it you'll need the heater on for at least 24 hours to get it up to temperature, and if you want to be spontaneous in your use of it, i.e. not have to plan hours in advance, you'll probably need to have it running all the time. Still, that's only £300-odd per quarter.
he could allways fit a plug in timer to switch it on and off 
"I'm talking about both"
- but the question of where the socket's located is a red herring, because it HAS to be a certain distance from the tub. The tub's cable will therefore trail that distance if the socket's located outside. In any case, if I were to go with the 'cable through wall' option, the wall in question is right by the tub's location - so no trailing there. (Point taken about that being a 'nasty option' though!)
"An extension lead just compounds it because you'll have a non-weatherproof socket somewhere in the garden."
- that's something I've never suggested doing and wouldn't do. If I used an 'extension' of any sort it'd either be an indoor one located indoors (with the tub cable coming in to meet it), or an 'outdoor socket kit' leading to a fixed outdoor socket
"When you first fill it you'll need the heater on for at least 24 hours to get it up to temperature, and if you want to be spontaneous in your use of it, i.e. not have to plan hours in advance, you'll probably need to have it running all the time. Still, that's only £300-odd per quarter."
- hmm... can't help thinking somebody would have noticed if this was the case. Typical customer experience seems to be that it takes about 7-8 hours to get the water heated initially, with running costs thereafter in the region of £60 a quarter (dependent on usage). As I say, my understanding is that these tubs are pretty well insulated.
"It's more realistic to supply it from an existing circuit. (But you'll still need to have an outdoor socket installed in a suitable location)."
- so does this mean that rather than my electrician needing to install a new, dedicated circuit, there's a possibility he could tap into an existing circuit to intall an outdoor socket? (And is that really so different from the 'outdoor socket kit' option that doesn't require rewiring?)
Thanks for bearing with me BAS by the way!
- but the question of where the socket's located is a red herring, because it HAS to be a certain distance from the tub. The tub's cable will therefore trail that distance if the socket's located outside. In any case, if I were to go with the 'cable through wall' option, the wall in question is right by the tub's location - so no trailing there. (Point taken about that being a 'nasty option' though!)
"An extension lead just compounds it because you'll have a non-weatherproof socket somewhere in the garden."
- that's something I've never suggested doing and wouldn't do. If I used an 'extension' of any sort it'd either be an indoor one located indoors (with the tub cable coming in to meet it), or an 'outdoor socket kit' leading to a fixed outdoor socket
"When you first fill it you'll need the heater on for at least 24 hours to get it up to temperature, and if you want to be spontaneous in your use of it, i.e. not have to plan hours in advance, you'll probably need to have it running all the time. Still, that's only £300-odd per quarter."
- hmm... can't help thinking somebody would have noticed if this was the case. Typical customer experience seems to be that it takes about 7-8 hours to get the water heated initially, with running costs thereafter in the region of £60 a quarter (dependent on usage). As I say, my understanding is that these tubs are pretty well insulated.
"It's more realistic to supply it from an existing circuit. (But you'll still need to have an outdoor socket installed in a suitable location)."
- so does this mean that rather than my electrician needing to install a new, dedicated circuit, there's a possibility he could tap into an existing circuit to intall an outdoor socket? (And is that really so different from the 'outdoor socket kit' option that doesn't require rewiring?)
Thanks for bearing with me BAS by the way!
You could have an external secket installed which is hard wored off of the existing circuit, rather than have an unsightly flex appearing out of the wall and being pluged in. I think this is one of the options BAS was hinting at too.
'Unsightly' I can live with - it's only my back yard and utility/bike store I'm talking about! It's electricians knocking holes in my walls I'd like to avoid. In fact if I were going to get an electrician to hardwire it from an existing circuit, I'd probably ask him to use trunking rather than keep the wiring in the walls anyway, which would be equally unsightly.
So I'm pretty much ignoring cosmetic aspects of this - it's safety I'm bothered about.
So I'm pretty much ignoring cosmetic aspects of this - it's safety I'm bothered about.
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
Similar threads
