Which? scores on most reliable boiler

[Dan Robinson]

How many boilers are sold in a year in the UK?

5 million or so? I can't remember.

Makes a comparative study with Whichs' numbers look a bit pathetic doesn't it Johnny boy?

50 boilers out of (for the sake of argument) 70000?

I was at Vaillant HQ today. They are knocking out 1000 or so boilers a day on 4 production lines...... Or was it 2000? 30 person per day I think they said they aim for.

You may continue shrivelling.

 

[oph]

God that blokes annoying.

Sorry Dano, Ive had abeer but it had to be said

And not I didnt mean VC either

 

[vulcancontinental]

Also people don't realise how worthless Which reviews are due to the methodology.

What are the flaws in the methodology?

A couple of the flaws are that you need a minimum of 50 for Which to call it a representative sample

But Worcester and Vaillant had respectively 1844 and 848 responses, so you wouldn't call that worthless, would you?

Vokera had, as you say, only 55 responses, and when asked "has your boiler broken down" a much higher proportion of them said "yes" than did for Worcester. Is that what you would call worthless if you didn't work for Vokera?

I didn't say worthless, I said unrepresentative and not only did I say it I explained why as the question was asked 'what flaws.' I did not mention them all.

As for those 21 we will see as I have suggested we ask WHICH to ask the responders on our behalf if they would mind us contacting them or vice-versa (data protection). I've asked the boss whether I can be the one to handle this but have no answer on that yet. It will be interesting to see whether Which allow this.

I would only criticize Which if they were doing something wrong and I had a better plan, I do not, I wish I did, but I do think I'm entitled to point out factors that would not be immediately apparent to the casual reader.

I even mentioned an independent audit by the BSI where we came out top yet mentioned flaws in that.

I got a Worcester working for an employee this morning and it was fine but it wouldn't be my choice of boiler if I were asked. Yes I've put them in and they've worked well but with the exception of one make and one model all of the brands I've used did and I have no special talent.

 

[JohnD]

removed due to stalkers

 

[roguetrader]

If I knew of a broader survey, I'd steer well clear, surely it would be the most boring read in the universe.

 

[JohnD]

removed due to stalkers

 

[Dan Robinson]

It is worthless by its very nature.

As has been pointed out several times.

 

[vulcancontinental]

I thought your comment to generous Dan and inacurate but thank you anyway, and oph too.

I didn't realise you had history with johnd but he asked a question and I answered it. The CC is a bit flat at the moment so I came in here.

I wish there were a better way of comparing equipment.

To johnd my advice is let the installer put in his recommendation, he will be pleased andvhappy to fit something he likes, has confidence in or gets some comission on and is therefore likely to do it justice no matter what the brand.

BTW Dan, good to hear Vaillant UK has a better quality output the factories in Germany or so I hear.

 

[Dan Robinson]

The factory was very impressive. Interesting meeting with the various directors too in the morning. I'll wait for Ian to log in... Or maybe not .


John and I only have history in so far as he gives poor advice and refuses to tell us what qualifies his advice over professionals.

I am sure he is a nice person deep down and just appears to be an adenoid deficient know all.

 

[Deleted member 63160]

IMO from working on boilers everyday of the week I'd say Vaillant have maintained standards over the years and Worcester Bodge have taken a dive.
The old RSF's Cdi's & i's were good boilers but the new crinkly cans are pretty poor.

 

[Dan Robinson]

As I was discussing after the meeting at Vaillant with another installer - well known former contributer in the cc who fits hundreds of different boilers a year.

Vaillant have more or less one core product that is tweaked and hobbled for different markets but are still expensive. Wooshitter Botch has the CDi which is expensive and average. And the Junior which is cheap and crap. Their marketing machine means that the typical Which magazine reader will look at the shiny badge and think ooh a Worcester and have no tangible appreciation of what goes on on the inside.

As stated, a properly installed boiler of any brand will work well and make the survey results skewed especially when a poor Vokera is likely to be slung at the wall for less pennies and care than a CDi so a failure is more likely. But at the same time less likely to be the boiler's fault but rather the installer.


We have no means of knowing if the boiler is being blamed for installer error as the punter is unlikely to differentiate the two.

I did a warranty call for Atag last week.

Pressure sensor blocking code.

Could be pump or pressure sensor.


Was actually the sensing port of the main HEX totally clogged with system debris.


Installer error. As have been the vast majority of the warranty calls I have been to for the 5 brands I do warranty work for over the last 10 years.


How many boilers do you see a year John?


John?

Are you there John?

Or have you shrunk away to the Mods coat tails again?

 

[JohnD]

removed due to stalkers

 

[Dan Robinson]

It is as worthless as the results of the survey.


What do you do for a living?

 

[Steelmasons]

What do you do for a living?

A plumbing/heating/gas WANNABE.

 

[essexmick]

Also worth pointing out that worcester, vaillant and viessmann are toward the top end of price point where as vokera, potterton and baxi are towards the bottom end.
If some one has paid good money for a good installation as opposed to being on a tight budget and going for the cheapest install, they may well encounter less aggro with there system.

OK, so the more you pay for an installation the better the installation is likely to be?