Who to get to sort rotting ceiling beam?

[CluelessDIYer1]

Not so much roof work but the wooden beams (or rather, pieces of wood until someone confirms they are 'beams') that are located between our bedroom ceiling & the roof.

The house had a leak before we bought it which has apparently been fixed. Roughly around where the red dot is on the fascia board here:


To cut a long story short, we had to whip off the ceiling paper. The ceiling is plaster & lath & the woodwork where the leak has been was sopping. You pressed it & water came out. It was quite soft. It has dried out massively since we removed the paper & some plaster but sections are still kinda soft.

The ceiling is a bit shaped where the valley is...



I had a look in the loft & there appears a 7x2/8x2/9x2 (can't tell & can't get close enough to measure) piece which may run from that corner of the room.

Only at the weekend did i see that this isn't THAT piece as it looks like some 4x3 (perhaps) cocked on its side with another bit running along side it. Perhaps this is supporting the 7/8/9x2 i wonder.







Anyway, we've made the mistake of getting the wrong folk for the job out before (i'm not talking plumbers out for electrics, not that bad, but still...) & we don't want to do it again.

Obviously i've spoken about this at work & some say i need a roofer to assess whether it needs repairing or can be left alone (roofer was my initial thought). Some people at my wifes work say a joiner needs to inspect as they deal with all the woodwork. Others say a standard builder.


Bit of a dim question but if it was your job, who would you be looking up in the yellow pages? Roofer? Joiner? Builder? Any of them fine?


And from the limited photos, is anyone able to hazard a guess as to what the likely repair would be here? I know you'll not be able to say whether it can be left alone & is fine, but wondered if you could say what the repair would be.

 

[catlad]

The roof needs stripping back and all rotten timber replacing, A joiner with knowledge of roofing can do it, same with a builder but you would should be better of with a roofer.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

The roof needs stripping back and all rotten timber replacing, A joiner with knowledge of roofing can do it, same with a builder but you would should be better of with a roofer.

The roof needs coming off? Here was me hoping you would be able to access that from inside. If the plaster-lath ceiling needed coming off then fine, but it thought they'd be able to get at this from inside without the need for coming from above.

Suppose it shows my lack of knowledge.

Still, on the plus side we're still searching for a decent builder but already have a decent roofer to contact.

 

[tony1851]

As catlad, you can't do this from inside.

By 'roof off' he wouldn't mean the whole roof, but the slates and battens need to come off, and so much as to be able to assess and replace rotted pieces. And in this situation - unlike a floor - it's rarely possible just to cut out a rotted bit and sister a new bit in.

Probably the best trades-person would be a good joiner with sound knowledge of roof structure.

Roofers themselves generally do the felting, battening, tiling and leadwork, which does not necessarilly mean they would be competent to undertake the joinery, which is the structural side; but then again, doubtless there will be roofers who could also do this aspect.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

As luck would have it i caught up with the roofers i was put on to today so they came out tonight. They don't just do roofing but that's their main job AFAIK.

Anyway he came out & had a look & said it appears to be fine, we may have just got lucky. He advised to if we have the time (we do) let it continue drying out & get some wet rot/dry rot treatment on there, let it soak in & then do it again.

This is depending on if the leak has been repaired. He advised to wait on a few good bouts of rain to see if it works its way through. If not then we might have got lucky.

He caught up with us late on so didn't have time to re-inspect the roof itself so is coming back to do that to see whether the leak has been totally repaired.



I was talking to a joiner/builder who is building an extension up the road, so is familiar with the room layouts. He said it would be accessible from inside, but the ceiling would need replacing afterwards.

 

[tony1851]

Cowboys, both of them.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

What makes you say that?

Obviously people online have nothing to gain/lose from helping is my view whereas if a tradesman doesn't like the look of a job he could potentially price himself out, say it's ok or whatever. This is why I do listen to what is said online as it often turns out to be correct.

 

[ree]

Two dormer lead valleys are converging onto a lead flat gutter that discharges through a chute into the hopper (& RWP) that you can see below the barge board meeting "V".

Usually, the dormer valleys and the flat lead gutter need stripping - perhaps more demolition will be needed depending on the extent of the wet rot spread. Others have discussed the roof(s).
But be cautious about removing anymore of the ceiling surfaces - you might bring down slates and debris. But more ceiling will have to be removed when work starts.

The meeting barge boards are probably damaged at their tails, if not further up?

When reinstating: the gutter must be to falls and the outlet must be into a short length of plastic guttering - the chute has to be eliminated.



The odds are that your neighbour has water damage too. Whatever, you will have to do the above as a joint task

After opening up, a careful search must be made at the party wall, down any cavities, and back into the adjoining lofts for any signs of dry rot - so far only wet rot can be seen.

 

[tony1851]

What makes you say that?

It's tricky getting a view of the whole area because your close-ups are very close, and it's not clear what is what.

The rotted parts look as though they may be battens and the valley board, but you really need to see the state of the feet of the main structural timbers as well.

You cannot do this from inside the room. If you want the job doing once - and once only - you should be prepared for work above the roof.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Thanks.

I'm on my phone with limited time right now but just to say the photos show no battens. I couldn't find my tape but it's like 4x3 or 4x4 timber.

 

[alan333]

Go in from the roof, remove whatever you need to get to the rot, remove/replace and eliminate the rot, and put the roof back together, properly. I wouldn't try it from inside.

 

[RogerBoyle]

Your best bet is to get some scaffold erected and expose the valley boards and suspect area .
Your wall plate may be damaged it may not.
Your rafters may be damaged they may not etc.
But by far the easiest way to check is from the top down to look

This will give you an idea how bad the situation is. and how much its going to cost. Its also possible that it has effected the neighbour as well and if so you may be able to split/share the costs depending on what is found

You will probably end up damaging the plaster in the room as well so make sure you move anything in the room away from the damaged area above

HTH

Roger

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Hi

I'm still at work so am still with limited break time & on my mobile for this.

Just to say it has not effected our neighbour. We asked them & they said the previous owner had asked them 6 months previous & it isn't a problem on their side.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

I took more of the plaster off tonight. It was gone anyway so thought i may as well whip it off.

This is how it looks now:





Anyway i got my screwdriver in between those slats that are nailed to beams to pull out the loose plaster.

I'm far from an expert but the 'beam' that is 'sticking out' is about 4x3 or 4x4. It was damp where it meets the wall but it feels quite solid still. I can probe it with a screwdriver & it feels solid. I wonder if this could have the dry & wet rot treatment/hardener on it & it be 'good to go'.

Although i've a feeling that's where the good news ends. The smaller beam that runs down the length of the wall (it seems to actually be 'bedded in' to the wall) certainly feels worse. The timber feels much softer when i probe it with a screwdriver. I could possibly rip the whole thing apart it's that soft. There's certainly movement at the end.

This runs for a few inch from the end upwards.

And i'm suspecting because of that, what has been said is correct - roof off is requirement.

My concern then is HOW would someone repair this. The process. It's not just a piece of timber donked on top of another, whip off, whip on. Like i say, it's bedded into the wall.

As i look through those slats i can see daylight. I'm not talking a big gaping hole but daylight through the slate. I'm guessing this is normal as it'll need to breathe??

On top of these beams appears to be that 8x2/9x2 that i see in the loft.

So looking at the layout, i think where the triangle piece is on the front of the house, i suspect only the right hand side of that where the valley is - only those slates would need to come off & then somehow (i've no idea how) the timbers replaced.

We had a quote for a re-roof ... £4,000. I'm hoping this repair does not come close to that figure. Again, in my infinite expertise, i have the figure £1,500-£2,000 in my head for this. No idea how accurate that will turn out to be.

 

[alan333]

Much depends on how bad the rot actually is, and IMHO you don't know that yet. Stripping out the roof won't necessarily be a big job, but I'd want at least a tower scaffold to access it, which can be flung up in an hour or so by a couple of guys. I'd say a reasonable guesstimate would be a day and a bit for 2 guys to erect tower, strip off roof as necessary, and later, to put it back and take the scaffold down. Then you need to add whatever time and materials necessary to sort the rot/rebuild the hopper etc. Probably around another day for the guys. Therefore your price should be £150/man/day x 4 man/days = £600 plus a bit for materials, maybe £100. However as it's not a particularly appealing job I wouldn't be surprised if the roofer "loaded it". If I was to do this type of job for a customer I'd tell them that it would depend what I found and that a base price would be around £700, but if it turned out a bigger job then it would be charged extra at X-quid per day, plus materials. That's not including internal plastering etc, nor VAT if you use a bigger company. See if you can track down a small family type roofing business, they often turn their hand to the trickier jobs.