why do electricians question the competence of DIYers?

[mikhailfaradayski]

Hi All, (and DAJ)

Not a gripe or anything, but it does make me wonder why people would come to this site to ask questions but also claim that they are competent to do the work anyway?

What gives with folk who start crying when their little bubble gets burst with some reality?

 

[bernardgreen]

Because sometimes the informed and competent DIY who thinks and uses common sense does have better knowledge than the professional who blindly and unthinkingly follows the rules he or she has been taught.

When the DIY's informed and valid opinion goes against the teachings then the professional who does not think has to question the competence of the DIY person.

That does not apply only to some electricians, it happens in almost all trades and professions.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Hi Bernard,

Because sometimes the informed and competent DIY who thinks and uses common sense does have better knowledge than the professional who blindly and unthinkingly follows the rules he or she has been taught.

ah yes, rules. For guidance or obedience? Depends on the person
I would agree that there are probably plenty of eager amateurs who know as much if not more than a closed-minded professional. I imagine that applies to many real situations.

When the DIY's informed and valid opinion goes against the teachings then the professional who does not think has to question the competence of the DIY person.

Fair enough, i imagine thats true. But what about when a DIYer has carried out some work in the belief that they are competent, but then have their confidence shaken by a differing second opinion?
If they truly believe they were competent, why would they bother to post question instead of just dismissing the second opinion as rubbish then move on?
If they keep trying to convince people they are competent, (i have seen two like this in recent days) but the evidence they present suggests otherwise, folding their arms, digging their heels in and refusing to believe the weight of opposing opinions isn't going to endear them to the people whose help they seek.

That does not apply only to some electricians, it happens in almost all trades and professions.

sage words

 

[mbga9pgf]

I think a lot has to do with competitiveness in the market place currently. Besides, if people with a little DIY know how could cope with some installations, then thats lost trade.

Its also fewer registration fees to the likes of the NICEIC and the LABC people, all of which have a vested interest to pump registered trades for their own cash generating purposes.

 

[ajrobb]

Professional electricians get to see lots of wiring mistakes. Maybe they truly believe most of these are caused by amateurs.

 

[xr4x4]

Professional electricians get to see lots of wiring mistakes. Maybe they truly believe most of these are caused by amateurs.

You can't put amateurs and DIY ers in the same group, it's not always the case.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I suppose that technically an electrician doing work on his own house is DIYing, but for all practical purposes the term "DIYer" does refer to someone who is an amateur.

 

[HH1]

Professional electricians get to see lots of wiring mistakes. Maybe they truly believe most of these are caused by amateurs.

xr4x4
not amateurs and diy. think electricians here.

would that be correct ajrob?

 

[ajrobb]

I was thinking of amateur as non-professional

 

[cumbriahandyman]

A DIYer does not need to be competent (know how to do it) when considering certain electrical jobs.

By asking for advice, (such as on here) they are looking for the correct and safe way to do it.

If advice is given to them, and they follow that advice to the letter, they become competent for that particular job.

That said, I have seen requests from DIYers on here that even the experts can't agree on, sorry no examples.

 

[mbga9pgf]

A DIYer does not need to be competent (know how to do it) when considering certain electrical jobs.

By asking for advice, (such as on here) they are looking for the correct and safe way to do it.

If advice is given to them, and they follow that advice to the letter, they become competent for that particular job.

That said, I have seen requests from DIYers on here that even the experts can't agree on, sorry no examples.

Lets just not go near ring finals vs radials or bonding please!

 

[ajrobb]

On the other hand, I have seen too many professional howlers ever to trust a sparks fully. For example, a council appointed inspector advised I used 10mm² earth (rather than 16mm²) from TN-C-S to CU and run bonding from the CU's installation earth terminal. He told me that METs are no longer used. He also told me to bond the boiler in the kitchen with the house plumbed in plastic.

 

[xr4x4]

If you rubbed the pipe for long enough, you might get some static...!

 

[ericmark]

Competent means they will not endanger themselves or others and there is a big difference between working and not working to being dangerous or not dangerous.

The big problem is without instruments it is very hard to ensure there is no danger.

So to work competently one will need to have RCD tester, Loop impedance tester, and high and low ohm meter (500v and 250ma).

We all know these standard meters for electricians cost around £750 to buy and £75 to hire so this raises the question what DIY person will buy or hire these instruments. They should of course also be calibrated but to be honest testing a socket with known parameters before starting and after completing is likely better than sending away for calibration judging from the results I have had with so called calibrated equipment.

If one accepts that the DIY guy will not have the test equipment then how can he ever be competent?

I know there are cheap plug in testers now which do test earth loop impedance and where the test sheets are available giving the details of that circuit either from PIR or original installation one could in theory calculate what the new reading would be.

However ask a DIY person what the permitted ELI for a 32A ring main is and I would be very surprised to get the correct answer.

OK I realise back in the old days electricians did not test earth loop impedance. However the move from fuse to MCB means the impedance is much more important. Unless the current exceeds the magnetic rating of trip then it will take over 10 seconds which is a long time to have a short circuit for.

The problem is the DIY person does not see the quick test the electrician does he only sees the graft in fitting cables etc. So he thinks he can do that.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We all know these standard meters for electricians cost around £750 to buy

They don't cost that much on eBay - ⅓ of that is a perfectly reasonable aspiration.

They should of course also be calibrated

Once done the regular use of a checkbox will remove the need for frequent re-calibration. The instruments are not going to have a hard life, after all.

this raises the question what DIY person will buy or hire these instruments

It's not compulsory to do DIY electrical work.

Nor is it compulsory to drive a Merc or BMW instead of a Ford or a Vauxhall, nor to stay in 4* hotels instead of 3* on holiday, and so on and so forth, but people pay far more than the cost of testers on things like that to achieve a better result, so why not on tools to achieve a better DIY result if they decide they are going to DIY?

The problem is the DIY person does not see the quick test the electrician does he only sees the graft in fitting cables etc. So he thinks he can do that.

And then sometimes gets really bent out of shape when you try to tell him how much he simply doesn't know even exists.