Widening Driveway

[DeadBeat]

Not sure if this is the correct section so feel free to move.

The house I'm moving into has a Purple concrete brick block driveway. the width of this drive way and between the gateposts is 220cm and the width of my car is 210ish with the mirrors out. anyway its a very tight squeeze and although i can manage it with much care, i don't fancy doing it day in day out or the Mrs's chances, as she may have a little bit of history with posts and cars in car parks....

So the plan is to knock the gatepost down and move it (before the mrs's does it for me ) and widen the drive.

To the side of the drive toward next door, there is more than a meter of space which is currently occupied by bushes and plants. so plenty of room for expansion. also there are plenty of the same bricks behind and to the side of the house that i can pull up to match. so i should have lots of available bricks.

The existing driveway is not very level and has dropped in places, so im guessing it was done on the cheap.

Its more likely that im going to take up the entire driveway and start again, does anyone know of any good guides to doing this, and any rough costs for things like hardcore and such.

i thinking ill cement the kerb stones in first and work to them, I assume i put the hardcore down first and then cement the kerbstones to them? I should be able to get a slight angle down the drive to the road for water run off, anything else to think about?

thanks

 

[DeadBeat]

here is a picture

the whole wall on the right hand side up to the grey fence post is mine.

the photo makes the drive look wider than it is due to the car being set back, but there is about 5 - 10 cm of space each side with the mirrors folded in when moving the car through the gates. also if you open the car door to get out your in the flowers, or the bush

thanks

 

[skhudy]

www.pavingexpert.com/ has all the advice you need

If it's dipping assume the base is substandard and the whole thing needs re-doing (if you want it done properly)

Mine (I had all the tools) for around 30m2 DIY cost around £1100 - 8 yard skip, hardcore, sand, blocking (around £20 a m2 was half the cost) and 10 man days (1 person). Hardest bit is the donkey work digging out 8-10inches (Depth will depend on the soil)

 

[DeadBeat]

interesting, i shouldn't need blocks, a skip or man power, just hardcore. sand. cement and some kind of decent edging and a wheel barrow lol. perhaps some membrane too

thanks for the link

 

[Griff500]

Something you should be aware off just in case...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/pavingfrontgarden/

If the blocks are or the porous type (although from your discription they dont sound like it) then you wont have any problems with the above but you will need to use a porous sub-base, ie one with no fines in it, rather than hardcore.

If its non-porous and over 5 sq m then in theory you need planning permission for the works - unless you drain it to a soakaway or rain garden on your property rather than out onto the public highway as your suggesting...

 

[skhudy]

interesting, i shouldn't need blocks, a skip or man power, just hardcore. sand. cement and some kind of decent edging and a wheel barrow lol. perhaps some membrane too

thanks for the link

You're suggesting you're going to take up the blocks and not dig out but drop hard core on top? If the existing sub-base is not stable, just adding a few inches to the top and compacting won't make it better. That's not really "starting again" imo

If that's what you mean, adding to the height of your drive, there should be a 6inch clearance to the DPC, you may risk breaching it. Lots of houses have had their drives done right up to and in some cases over airbicks in my area, its because the builder is saving costs / labour / time. Not good long term

 

[DeadBeat]

no im not suggesting that, im suggesting i have the blocks already, and i've got man power, and hopefully somewhere for the ground i dig up even if its a lot of ground. so no, i do plan to go back as deep as required or there isn't much point. The damp course on the house it also two to three bricks above ground, then another 2 to 3 with air vents under the downstairs floor then ground. house is really high out of the ground for some reason.

I think the drive is really old, perhaps 70's or 80's

ill get some more pictures tonight as i have a few extra questions.

thanks

 

[DeadBeat]

here are a few pics of the drive i took lastnight

its not as bad as i remembered only one or two dips but still not level, the bricks are a little bleached but i dont have the money to replace them.

can anyone help me work out how much stone and sand i need?

also what kind of stone and sand am i searching for for the two bases and what material, is best for the layer to stop the stone sinking into the ground?

 

[DeadBeat]

sorry guys just reading up on the layers required from the link posted above giving me some good background information.

however it has also given me a lot of different choices and im a bit confused as to what im looking for.

If i was to call up Jewsons or whoever, what material would I be asking for for the subbase. Is it standard hardcore, or should I be asking for something that will compact better?

and then the sand, what will i be asking for here? just coarse sand for laying block paving? and fine sand to fill the cracks after?

thanks

 

[r896neo]

You need Type 1 MOT or mostly just known as type 1

Its a mix of crushed stone from 40mm down to dust and compacts very well.

As for sand it has different names in different areas

paving sand
concreting sand
sharp sand
grit sand
washed river sand

These are all pretty much the same thing.

For jointing afterwards you want kiln dried sand. a 25KG bag will do about 7m/sq

 

[DeadBeat]

ok ive done some investigating and want to get some thoughts, bare in mind my super small budget.

here are some photos of the current foundation of the driveway:

and here is the details

the ground at the very bottom is soft clay, looks like they have thrown any old ****e in it for a very bottom base including bricks as pictured. then on top of that they have put 8 - 9 cm of gravel / stone mix. on top of that is the layer of sand at about 3cm deep. then the bricks.

is that sounding really bad, its sank in really only one area and the edges have moved as they aren't actually attached to anything,.

would you still pull it up? ive been looking into getting a skip and a mini digger but the prices aren't really cheap and then with the MOT, wacker and everything else its looking a pricey job.

if i was to dig it up by hand do you think it would be possible for two people to dig up all the required soil in a week?

another option would be to take off the sand and then add mot on top of what is there (as it should be well compacted by now) to build it up a bit higher, would require less mot, and less material removing. the driveway should be able to lift up ok as its very well below the damp course on the house, 2-3 bricks below. would cost me a lot less because im not buying as much in and not taking as much away.

however if it will make a **** job id rather not do that. might just have to spend the money.

i took a load of measurements on sat of various things which ill put to you later to try to figure out what quantities or material i will need.

thanks

 

[Griff500]

90-100mm sub base is right on the absolute minimum, especially on a soft clay as the bearing pressure will be quite low... I suspect your going to need in the region of 100-150mm compacted type 1 for your sub base, thicker the better obviously, with 30-40mm sharp sand to lay blocks on and kiln dried sand for jointing. The bulk bags you can buy hold approx 0.4 cubic metres I think, which works out at approx 2.5 sq m @ 150mm thick or 4 sq m at 100mm thick for the type 1 and about 10-12 sq m for the sharp sand but check with your builders merchant when ordering.

You will want approx 200mm x 150mm for the concrete bed and surround for the edging bricks.... cubic meter of concrete will do you about 30 meters or so of edging.

I would have though you would have no problem hand digging that in a week but it depends on how hard you go at it....

Personally I wouldn't go for laying on top of the existing but if you do then dig out the soft spots where the drive has sunk, you will also have to ramp the drive if you lay on top of existing so you have level access at the pavement so I am guessing you will end up taking half of it out anyhow.. If you do go that route you need to make sure that you can fully compact the type 1 so a minimum thickness of around 50mm will be needed.... and obviously keep it 150mm (two bricks) below DPC although by the sounds of it that isn't a problem and try where ever possible to slope the drive/path away from the building so you don't end up with any possible damp problems.

 

[DeadBeat]

ok so here is the fun maths bit!

the above is the current lay out. the idea is Pull up area B and C and lay it into area D and E

the areas of A, B and C are as follows

Area A

8.6m
x
2.5m
----
21.5 m2

Area B

4.5m
x
3.4m
----
15.3 m2

Area C

4.1m
x
2.2m
----
9.02 m2

Total 45.82 m2

Area A i want to make as wide as the drive allows to the right, this is 1.2m. so after moving everything and using the remaining bricks, area A + E will be:

8.6m
x
3.7m
----
31.82 m2

that should leave me with 14m2 for Area D

can Someone check the math?

 

[DeadBeat]

Also Griff thanks for the detailed response, Ive had a read and ill take it in properly later, but it all makes sense!

 

[Griff500]

Your maths are correct however either your plan or your numbers for area B are not.

The plan says 6.5m deep by I assume 2.5m wide and your sums say 4.5 x 3.4m.