will this work ok?

[mattysupra]

I would suggest you have answered your own questions really.

Champagne ideas, beer money.

Like it or not you are asking for a commercial system. That comes at a premium.

Although "warehouse" seems a little self aggrandising from your descriptions.

I'll direct your thread to one of the commercial guys in the CC and see what he says....

sorry, i may of called our storage area by the wrong name (warehouse)

its a tools and materials store area. its approx 9m x 9m with a 3m head height. so about the same size as two through rooms in a domestic property.

When i say racking, i mean the shelf things you purchase from B&Q.

Beer money or not, im trying to get other quotes. If the quotes are the same then that is what i pay. so far i have had 2 quotes with a 100k difference on a property that is around 2x the size of my house. i live in a above bigger than normal 3 bed semi. When i say bigger than normal then it could be about the same size as a average 4 bed house.

now correct me if im wrong but a CH system in a 4 bed house dont cost 10K ??? let alone no chopping out of walls or lifting floorboards etc. no harder than fitting 3 rads and a boiler all in the same room?

 

[dcawkwell]

Warm air heaters that get heated with water?

Don't they usually heat with gas directly?

 

[Gigas]

Firstly I would imagine the blowers would have a connection for the room stat. So the 2 ports probably not required? Next I would put 2 smaller boilers in cascade with low loss header etc. and your pipe sizing is way off. Min 35mm up to 2nd heater.... It's a little far for me but if price was right???

 

[mattysupra]

4k materials my Harris

worcester bosch utility-70kw = £1850 inc vat
oil tank = £550 inc vat
1x 31kw air blowers = £440 inc vat
2x 18kw air blowers = £740 inc vat
1x pump = £65
3x 2 Way Motorised Valve 22mm = £165
3x room stats £150
50 meters of 22mm pipe £250
0dds and sods = £200 ??

So that is £4410

. them prices are what i quickly pulled off the net. The plumbers merchant near me quoted a lot cheaper when i went in friday. I dont have prices to hand tho.


I dont know tho, this i s a diy forum so if im missing loads of stuff there can you let me know please.

 

[Dan Robinson]

There is no point equating a commercial heating system with the relative size of your house.

That kind of attitude is why (I would guess) you got a quote for 120k.

70kW of decent boiler is going to blow most of 4k. How are you going to power it?

Commercial means threaded tube rather than copper on gas IIRC.

You need to stop and smell the coffee Matty.

 

[mattysupra]

Warm air heaters that get heated with water?

Don't they usually heat with gas directly?

like these - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281019323055

 

[Dan Robinson]

You want to run that lot off 22mm copper?

70kW oil boilers are cheaper than the equivalent gas boiler - but will cost more to run.

Is the danesmoor utility condensing? Not up to spec on oil I confess.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Wonder what a 35mm end feed tee comes to nowadays?

 

[mattysupra]

Firstly I would imagine the blowers would have a connection for the room stat. So the 2 ports probably not required? Next I would put 2 smaller boilers in cascade with low loss header etc. and your pipe sizing is way off. Min 35mm up to 2nd heater.... It's a little far for me but if price was right???

no, they are simply rads that turn a fan on that is mounted to the rear when they get warm. I presume they are more designed to heat one are to a certain temp, i want to separate 3 areas and have 3 different temps in the 3 areas (this is what most plumbers cant work out how to do. Hence i sat down and did that diagram with how i 'guess' it can be done)

Many thanks for the advice tho.

My 20k quote i got then the plumber is wrong, he was going to do 22mm all the way and branch off in 15mm. I pointed out that the heaters inputs was 22mm and then i got a "o ye, we will do it all in 22mm then!"

 

[mattysupra]

Wonder what a 35mm end feed tee comes to nowadays?

do me a favour, dont bother posting in this thread please.

Its a DIY forum and im asking for help. I have offered out my number in this post and a old one asking for people to quote. I dont want to fit the system. but while im stuck getting people to quote and i need this sorting (plumbers seem happy to fit boiler but not the pipe work)

Your posts asking me what a 35mm end stop costs is blah blah....... why you asking me? im not a plumber. Why you challenging me on price, i just posted up what boiler it is and the cost? is a worsceter bosch boiler no good then? If you want to knock the boiler and tell me i have to spend 4k on a boiler then simply advice a boiler to me. Maybe you would be better off highlighting to me that a end stop will cost £100 quid or what ever.


To make things clear here. Im not penny pinching, if the install costs 20k then it costs 20k. END OF. But im not going to spend 20k on only one quote, more so a quote that im not happy with and someone else has actually pulled up a issue already. If i went with that 20k quote i think i would be in trouble already.

 

[griggs]

No offence, but I think you really do need to persevere in finding an installer who understands what you want and knows how to achieve it.

Dan is just trying to highlight how far out you are on your costs. 22mm is not going to be sufficient, you are definitely going to need minimum 35mm primaries, not done the calcs possibly larger. When you get to these sizes, the cost of pipe and fittings will make your eyes water. When your running at these pipe sizes then you can't use plastic pipe clips, your looking at brass munson rings or black iron or rubber lined. It may be cheaper to run in screwed steel or Uponor MLCP etc etc. Lagging is something else to consider, on jobs of this type it is not uncommon to sub out lagging to specialist lagging firm.

Your £65 for pump is way off, that will only just get you a Grundfos 15/50!

Need to remember other items as well such as tower / scissor lift hire if your looking at 3m working height, all these little things add up.

 

[Dan Robinson]

The OP is giving all this lip despite getting free help, and acts as if he's doing us/me a favour. Marvellous in it?
Matty, you may not like the way I have given my advise, but read it carefully and you might see a lesson to be learnt.

As the others have already said, you knocking up a little shopping list from Google doesn't touch the sides.

The worcester is an OK boiler, I fitted one for my dad. But that doesn't make it the best for your application.

 

[numpty1]

two floor standing air heaters will do the job with roomstats,no need for pipework or pumps or brackets/clips blah blah blah.

http://www.warmflow.co.uk/products/air_heaters

 

[griggs]

£550 inc VAT for oil tank.

What size and is it bunded?

 

[mattysupra]

No offence, but I think you really do need to persevere in finding an installer who understands what you want and knows how to achieve it.

Dan is just trying to highlight how far out you are on your costs. 22mm is not going to be sufficient, you are definitely going to need minimum 35mm primaries, not done the calcs possibly larger. When you get to these sizes, the cost of pipe and fittings will make your eyes water. When your running at these pipe sizes then you can't use plastic pipe clips, your looking at brass munson rings or black iron or rubber lined. It may be cheaper to run in screwed steel or Uponor MLCP etc etc. Lagging is something else to consider, on jobs of this type it is not uncommon to sub out lagging to specialist lagging firm.

Your £65 for pump is way off, that will only just get you a Grundfos 15/50!

Need to remember other items as well such as tower / scissor lift hire if your looking at 3m working height, all these little things add up.

No offense taken, you have pointed out a few things that need to be considered. Thanks


Im working off the quote i have and what was discussed. The 20k quote i had is very wrong by the sounds. Hence im glad i asked on here rather that going a head with it with out other quotes.

Thanks again.

Just for reference, scissor lift etc is on site and heaters will all be mounted ready. Quote is to simply attach the things to the boilers.

Thinking about maybe separate boilers now.

If i was to run the large 31kw heater off a 30kw + boiler then would that reduce pipe size down to 22mm?