Window trim

[nixbarchetta]

Not a DIY question per se but I need some advice please. We have just had new UPVC windows fitted and have had loads of problems with the fitment and quality of the windows We noticed yesterday when doing another inspection following some rectification work that lots of plastic trim has been used on the outside of the frames It's not on all the windows and on some it is just on the top part of the frame but on 2 of the 3 front windows it is on the top and both sides and the 3rd has none at all. This has resulted in them looking unmatched and TBH looks pretty crap. Aside from this any trim is not covered by the guarantee and would also not be covered by the GGFI that is offered to purchase for the windows. I would also guess that the quality of this trim is not as good as the frames themselves and will probably discolour quickly.

They have also placed it along the sills of the windows internally some wide and some narrow, on the stripped wooden sills we have it looks particularly awful

Why do they do this, am I correct in presuming it's to cover up the fact they've made a mess or that the windows don't fit quite right?

 

[kbdiy]

Not so much to cover up the mess (I would hope) but certainly to cover up the gaps. It's inevitable that there will be some gaps where old windows are removed and replaced - plaster falling off or damaged - but it's difficult to assess how much is acceptable or not. It certainly shouldn't be used to cover excessive gaps caused by the windows being made with too much tolerance.

Can you post some pictures to illustrate your concerns? Have you complained to the window company?

 

[crank39]

Not so much to cover up the mess (I would hope) but certainly to cover up the gaps. It's inevitable that there will be some gaps where old windows are removed and replaced - plaster falling off or damaged - but it's difficult to assess how much is acceptable or not. It certainly shouldn't be used to cover excessive gaps caused by the windows being made with too much tolerance.

Can you post some pictures to illustrate your concerns? Have you complained to the window company?

+1

Totally correct, it's not so much the trims but how they're used, too many or poorly fitted or sealed then they'll look gash, my hunch is the windows were poorly measured

 

[Gazman16]

I assume this was done by a large national company?
Personally I plaster and render windows in using as little trim as humanly possible but there are very few fitters/company's that do this.
Most just trim everything. Some make such a mess of plaster work that Ive seen them use fasia board as trim

 

[nixbarchetta]

They're a local company who cover the Potteries and Cheshire, recommended by a family member

They've been back today as we had rain pouring in through 2 windows when we had a storm the night before last. They had failed to seal above one of the windows and say they can see nothing wrong with the other

He said the trim was put on as it's an old house and the holes aren't straight. We did have UPVC before though that was fine and had no trim covering up any gaps at all. As Gazman16 says I would have expected any problems to be corrected with render, but lazy fitters I guess. We have had another workman round today who said the trim has been fitted very poorly.

The lounge window has a lovely stripped wood casing around it (old house) which was pushed inwards on one side when the window was fitted taking all the plaster with it. When they came back to rectify it they've pushed it back out and seemingly buckled the window in the process as the bottom window (it's a 50/50 split) will only come to on one side with force.

In addition to these issues 2 of the windows were damaged, 6 handles were chipped and had to be replaced and 5 windows hadn't been sealed!

The pics attached are:
1 & 2 windows with trim on
3 window without trim on
4 plaster pushed off lounge wall
5 & 6 leaking windows
View media item 64162 View media item 64163 View media item 64164 View media item 64165 View media item 64166 View media item 64167
BTW please excuse the poor window film on the last pic, have taken the blind down in this room as it's being decorated and the film is there temporarily for some privacy!

 

[noseall]

If i had been the installer i would have refused to fit in the opening with the black painted stone header. The brick reveals are horrendous and appear to be the remnants of a botched widening operation.

 

[nixbarchetta]

If i had been the installer i would have refused to fit in the opening with the black painted stone header. The brick reveals are horrendous and appear to be the remnants of a botched widening operation.

The windows with the black stones are the original openings/sizes the same as all the other houses in the row, which all have the same stones. They have never been altered in any way and were not flagged up as a problem by the surveyor prior to the installation. We had UPVC before with no problems. The only non original opening is the one without the stone as this was done following one of the bedrooms being split into 2.

 

[DHFrames]

The external head trim on the window with the lovely film on looks to be pretruding out past the stonework!! Water will make its way in!!
Adding a little brown and red dye to the render mix would of blended in better.
How were the previous windows finished off outside, we're they all rendered up the sides?

 

[nixbarchetta]

The external head trim on the window with the lovely film on looks to be pretruding out past the stonework!! Water will make its way in!!
Adding a little brown and red dye to the render mix would of blended in better.
How were the previous windows finished off outside, we're they all rendered up the sides?

I have just felt all the way along the top of the window from inside and it doesn't protrude at all, it's about 1mm under at one side going to about 2/3mm under at the other side.

 

[nixbarchetta]

We had one of the fitters back again yesterday as the bedroom window was still leaking water in between the frame and the wall, they resealed it but today it's still leaking. They say they can see nothing wrong with it so who knows what they can do now? This video was taken at the weekend during a really bad storm.

It's so annoying as we're in the middle of decorating this room and it's wrecked all the fresh paint around it

 

[nixbarchetta]

Had yet another fitter round to look at the leaking window yesterday, he can't see a problem either and is now blaming it on the roof even though he says he's not a roofer. We explained that the old window didn't leak in around the frame but he said that now the window is airtight this could happen???

Someone has been up in the loft to see if they can see anything up there to support this theory and all is fine. The roof looks sound too and even if there was a problem there, the old window never let in water and this one does. He said the old window may have been rotten..... it was UPVC, since when does that rot? They are clutching at straws and by saying this the ball is now out of their court and in ours!

So where do we go from here? I can't believe that none of these fitters have taken off the trim around the window and checked underneath it? they say that as it's sealed with silicone even if there was a problem underneath, it wouldn't leak. Is this correct?

Does anyone have any suggestions as to why this might be happening please?

 

[orchard222]

Get the company owner around with a fitter/s and demand they remove the trim on the leaking windows for an external inspection and see what shows up. Is the company a member of any double glazing ombudsman?

 

[DazH]

Hi, I've been a UPVC Fabricator on and off since i was 16 unfortunately not a lot of fitting. Those "trims" you say on windows 1+2 ? (cant quite make out on the pictures) but they look like frame extenders. Sometimes used when the opening isn't square. you make the actual window 20mm smaller so the opening sash doesn't catch the brickwork. But looking at that black stone above window 1 he still hasn't managed to put it in square. Window 4 , the damaged plaster - unfortunately this kind of thing can happen when you get building work done BUT he should have repaired it. Windows 5 and 6 - that's a lot of water for it to be coming in through the windows , personally id be checking the guttering and roof. It could be running down the cavity finding its way out at the windows. Next time it is fine and the windows are dry inside go outside with a hose, spray the window and just above the top gap do it for a while don't just lightly sprinkle it. Have someone watching to see if it comes in, If not you know its not the windows. If you don't think you got what was promised or the work is shoddy , complain if you get nowhere with the company ,get a surveyor to examine the work and take them to court

 

[nixbarchetta]

No, window 1 wasn't square, they've now moved this window again as they'd pushed it out too far on the 2nd attempt which left it bulging at the bottom on the outside and also left the bottom opening section of the window twisted so it could only be closed with considerable force. I am concerned that once the trims were removed this window can be moved easily making me think that it is not secured or foamed in in any way, is this normal practice?

They repaired the plaster in the internal wall on the 2nd visit (not very well I hasten to add) and when it rains a damp patch is appearing there View media item 64818 This is also window in pic 5, they've cured the main leak, they forgot to seal above it

The other leaking window is still a problem though. We've had the guttering checked, there was a slight drip where there's a join but nothing to cause this sort of problem. There's nothing visible in the loft and we don't have cavity walls. Surely if there was a problem with the roof the old window would have also leaked? Unfortunately, logistically I can't get a hose to the front of the house as it will not fit on any of the taps inside and the outside tap is too far away for it to reach that far. We have also had the roof checked, there are a couple of cracked tiles which were repaired a while ago and are still OK (we were unable to find any replacements at the time) The roofer said in his opinion that no way would a leak on the roof be causing this water ingress where it is, he is also of the opinion that if it was an issue with the roof the old windows would have had the same problem.

Also when you pull the openers in on this window to close them neither of them meet on the right hand side until you turn the handle. I've had to scrape all the paint off from around the window as it was bubbling so badly, it's been a week since I did that and the plaster is still wet and we've hardly had any rain.

When one of the fitters came back he commented on how much the windows protrude beyond the brickwork, unlike all the other houses in the street, said how odd they looked! It's like they're too deep for the aperture that they are fitted in to. When it rains the water washes straight down the face of the windows from the brickwork, they're constantly dirty.

We paid a deposit when we placed the order as we wanted the windows ASAP as we're decorating in the room with the bad leak. We were promised them in 2-3 weeks, it turned out to be 4. Now 12 weeks down the line were are unable to move forward with this decorating job until we know this leak has been sorted. The bedroom is unusable, there are boxes and furniture all over the house and one of us is having to sleep on the sofa, it's like a never ending nightmare!