wiring advise please

[darren7]

Good idea, but I'm not sure that it should be an "if" about not DIYing. Getting clued up is one thing - learning enough to do a complete rewire of a house is another. It isn't necessarily beyond the grasp of a DIY-er, but I get the impression that you are at the beginning of the learnng curve, not the end

well I am not living in the house at this time all the floor boards are ripped up.

I am no expert , but I like to read and read, so would like to do most of the work myself, its nice to look back and know you have done things, and made a good job. and nice to admit when you need help.

Thank you

Darren

 

[il78]

Ban - I was joking!!

Yeah Right.......

So you dont have emergency lights installed around your house.....?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

well I am not living in the house at this time all the floor boards are ripped up.

That's a help. As is the not-living-there, as that will make the use of power tools for chasing the walls much more acceptable. As you're in a situation of mess-is-no-object, chase nice large channels so that you can install conduit.

I am no expert , but I like to read and read, so would like to do most of the work myself, its nice to look back and know you have done things, and made a good job. and nice to admit when you need help.

Start reading.

You can get at this http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/1.1.htm immediately, as it's on-line, but you should also buy a paper copy, either from TLC or Amazon.

Paul Cook's book:

is good if you like a lot of the mathematical background to design calculations etc.

The On-Site Guide is invaluable:

Might also be available from Amazon, but make sure you get the latest, Amendment #2 version with the BROWN cover.


Also I have heard good things about (but haven't got) the Which? guide to Wiring and Lighting, and the Collins encyclopaedia.

 

[darren7]

Also I have heard good things about (but haven't got) the Which? guide to Wiring and Lighting, and the Collins encyclopaedia.

that real funny, I have this one arriving in a day or 2, this is a well rated book, looking around from unconnected sources this gets very good praise.

I have a wall chaser ( its a ferm 1400w diamond disk) rear exhaust for hoover pipe. its £180 over here and I got it brand new from a guy of ebay (Germany) for around £75. that including delivery

Thank you

 

[securespark]

Ian -

Not yet, mate!!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

that real funny, I have this one arriving in a day or 2, this is a well rated book, looking around from unconnected sources this gets very good praise.

There you go then - get the others ordered!

I have a wall chaser ( its a ferm 1400w diamond disk) rear exhaust for hoover pipe. its £180 over here and I got it brand new from a guy of ebay (Germany) for around £75. that including delivery

Well - assuming the walls are made of the right stuff, get yourself an SDS drill with rotostop, and a box sinker, and you'll be all set.

As the house is empty, you might prefer to wear a mask and just let the dust fly, rather than risk clogging up your vacuum cleaner by attaching it to the chaser.

PS - do you have a plan to provide yourself with juice while you're ripping and replacing the electrics?

 

[securespark]

Paul Cook makes what some people deem to be questionable judgements about earthing in kichens and in bathrooms where plastic pipe prevails.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As an FIEE, Secretary of the IEE Wiring Regulations Committee and author/editor of the OSG and most of the guidance pubs you would tend to hope that he knows wot whereof he speaks...

 

[securespark]

You said it, Ban.

Secretary of the organisation that talks s*ite and whose regs (sometimes) don't make sense, and whose technical engineers contradict each other.

We have to live with the regs as they have been agreed upon (admittedly by the sheltered minority), but since reading his articles on the IEE site, a lot of what Paul Cook says is his own opinion, not that of the IEE. I used to be a fan of his, we have talked over the finer points of many regs over the years, and I used to believe that what he said was always faithful to the regs, but now I'm not so sure.

I could go on, but won't.

 

[securespark]

Ban

I'm not having a go mate, but do you agree with his assertion that bonding is no longer deemed necessary in a kitchen?

Or that plastic pipes present in bathroom mean that metalwork is no longer extraneous?

These are two of his theorys that I have given a lot of thought to, and struggle to agree with.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ban

I'm not having a go mate, but do you agree with his assertion that bonding is no longer deemed necessary in a kitchen?

I'd be happier with bonding. I won't repeat the Nigella Lawson thing, but the risks in kitchens are much lower. But bonding won't hurt.

Or that plastic pipes present in bathroom mean that metalwork is no longer extraneous?

Here I'm in complete agreement with him, a fact which will I'm sure be a great relief to him

As I understand it, the whole point of bonding is to ensure that metal objects in a bathroom are guaranteed to be at the same "earth" potential, and that that is also the same as the cpc potential. The worry is that you could otherwise end up with metal objects at different "earth" potentials because one of them (e.g. a radiator) is connected to the supply earth via a lot of copper pipe and electrically dodgy joints. However, a rad fed by plastic pipes is not earthed at all, and no more requires bonding than does a metal soapdish on the wall.

Would you bond a soapdish? Or an ordinary unheated towel rail? Or a toothbrush holder? Or a hook for a bathrobe? Or a window handle? Or a wastebin? Or a curtain track?

If yes, then I'll give up now, but if not, then why do you want to bond a metal rad that's fed by plastic pipes?

 

[securespark]

Help! He's picking on me........somebody stick up for me.........oh you rotters!!!

 

[securespark]

Ban

Here's a quote from FWL from a bygone thread:

QUOTE:

Journeyman, pray tell where you get the notion that you do not bond kitchens? You cannot carte blanche say that all equipment and accessories supplied by plastic piping should not be earthed. One needs to look at the situation extremely carefully. If those an item became live due to a fault elswhere, and it is not earthed, it will remain live until a person touches it and creates a circuit to earth, then they will recieve one hell of a shock, probably fatally. All this nonsense started by Paul Cook is ****. Of course there instance were such items need no be earthed, and the taps in this example is likely one of them, but I can think of many instances of items supplied by plastic pipes in then home that do require bonding to ensure electrical safety.

UNQUOTE.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Then I guess the same questions need to be posed to our esteemed engineer - would he bond soapdishes, surtain tracks, wastebins etc? They are metal, just like a radiator.

Surely they are just as likely, (or unlikely) to become live due to a fault elsewhere as a radiator on plastic pipes?

I''ve never seen it suggested that I should bond my toothbrush holder to the towel ring a couple of feet away.

Someone please tell me - WHAT MAKES RADIATORS SO SPECIAL?

 

[kendor]

Oh this Bonding, Earthing Issue again!
I still disagree with the the mixing of bonding and earthing that people on here are talking about, Bonding is there to make sure metalwork is at the same potential earthing is for protection against Direct contact.
I mention the following in this thread as mention of metalwork becoming live has been said, I am still in disagreement about tagging bonds onto the nearest sockets earth as this mixes the two systems and an example of why this could be dangerous has occured to me:
Supposing as has been mentioned elsewhere a twisted solid earth into a radial socket snaps off this is the earth coming from the CU, the other earth stays connected in the socket, now an appliance plugged to this socket develops an earth fault, it doesn't blow the fuse as there is no earth return whereby it livens up the floating earth and all bonded metalwork tagged onto the socket, surely a much more potentially dangerous situation now! as you could have radiators etc all live "bonded" from this socket but a sinktop at a different potential nearby.
This is why CPC's should be there to protect against earth faults in their individual plugged in appliances and supplementary bonding should tag onto the main bond point for the zone.
Many were confused about what i was saying about the supplementary bonding eventually finding it's way back to the main earthing point at the CU I was saying that it tags onto a Main earth bond which then itself goes back to the main earth terminal.