Wiring and Pointed rubblestone walls

[keycare]

I've tried searching on this topic but haven't found any specific answers.

I am currently re-wiring a very old stone farmhouse (there's another story here for another topic, but anyway...) the wife wants the walls in the lounge to be pointed (with lime mortar). They are all random rubblestone apart from one stud partition.

Most of the wiring for entertainment, network, coax etc will end up in that partition but our dilemma is the rest of the power requirements.

How do I run cables for power, light switches, wall lights etc. Most trunking looks awful, I've suggested using copper pipe as trunking or even black galv trunking but she's having none of it. It's a total re-fit, so we could put extra deep skirting but do regs 'frown' upon sockets in skirting and cable behind skirting.

I presume that I can't run the cable in the stone joints before pointing as the cable it unlikely to run straight up or down and probably exceed the 150mm 'safe zone'.

Does anyone have any experience of this?

 

[streetlighter]

get some plain copper pyro cable and make a nice job of dressing it. Looks better than any other installation method on bare stone walls.

 

[dullSpark]

May I suggest galvanized steel conduit, or failing that, PVC conduit. When done well if can look beautifully neat, I have black PVC conduit in my house in places due to old brick walls that don't like chasing and even unpainted it looks good.

The main problem is designing the runs to be the simple and neat. However pyro would certainly be a smaller and possibly neater alternative, given that you can terminate it properly, as is the case with steel conduit.

Exposed conduit looks very arty and surprisingly fashionable, maybe you can try that case on your better half?

 

[keycare]

get some plain copper pyro cable

I would need to show SWMBO some pictures for approval, if you find any links to pics, that would be appreciated.

 

[Adam_151]

Sounds like the guy is a DIYer... MI is going to be a bit of a learning curve!

But yes, that would look good

I presume that I can't run the cable in the stone joints before pointing as the cable it unlikely to run straight up or down and probably exceed the 150mm 'safe zone'.

I understand that MI was invented for the louvre gallery in france many years ago, who wanted to conceal cables in the morter lines of stone walls... of course then no one was quite as fussed about bend radius as we are today as long as the cable didn't break...

But don't be tempted to follow the motar lines with surface MI... it'll just look daft!

 

[daytona]

more of a learning bend then a snap


just finished a pyro job(a few weeks).havent worked on that for a long time.loved it.

OP: if you go down this route,which is by far the best method,take your time,its not really for the inexperienced.you may want to get someone in to terminate the ends.

 

[Adam_151]

OP: if you go down this route,which is by far the best method,take your time,its not really for the inexperienced.you may want to get someone in to terminate the ends.

I for one can attest that its not just the ends that might give grief to the inexperienced.. getting it perfectly straight isn't as easy as it looks

Unfortunatly for the OP, not only does it require special tools to make off the ends, but it needs IRing as its installed, and not just at the end

 

[333rocky333]

I would need to show SWMBO some pictures for approval, if you find any links to pics, that would be appreciated.

look on some london property websites

A lot of old riverside warehouse conversions are done in surface galv conduit on yellow stock bricks, which will give you some idea.
You can also get stainless steel conduit, but not cheap.

Surface socket and switch boxes may be hard to find to fit neatly with Quality frontplates, so your choice of finish will also be restricted.

Trunking can be rough, but run in the safe zones, boxed ,in and finished with thin beading and mouldings it can blend in with the decor

 

[DaveWalsh]

What the French do is hack out the (weak) mortar around the stones then jam in flexible plastic conduit (having run the individual wires through conduit first) then re- mortar. The conduit therefore runs all over the place, depending on size of stone/rubble - this may not be legal in the UK. The biggest problem is getting the "new" mortar to match the "old"; the solution is to re mortar the whole wall.

 

[plugwash]

bare copper MICC looks like very thin (about 7mm for 2.5mm² 2 core) copper pipe. Like copper pipe it will be shiny when new but dull with age.

 

[oharaf]

MI would be my feeling here, but, it does require time and patience and is not for your average diyer.

When done well it looks fantastic!!!! Not cheap thou and the continuous IRing is a bind, but, when complete your wife and friends will think you're the greatest.

Have just seen some in a barn conversion in Leeds, I stared for hours my wife thought I was having an 'episode' our friends couldn't understand or APPRECIATE what craftmanship it takes.

Fecking teachers!!!!!!!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There's some very neat work in Bamburgh Castle too...

 

[keycare]

All very interesting, yes I am a DIY'er but definately not a botcher, a bit of a perfectionist. I was think of re-training to be an electrician as I am seriously fed up of the job I do now (Business Analyst).

I've had experience of this copper stuff before, had no idea what it was called or what the hell to do with it (it was the supply to a porch light) until I showed a picture to a guy at TLC who sold me the bits to terminate it.

So am I right in assuming that this is the only type of cable you can surface mount without secondary protection (conduit etc)?

 

[Adam_151]

So am I right in assuming that this is the only type of cable you can surface mount without secondary protection (conduit etc)?

You can surface mount anything, pvc/pvc, conduit, trunking, SWA, FP200, MI, etc, as long as its suitable for the enviroment, eg. pvc sheathed wouldn't be approiate behind a workbench in a machine shop!, T&E can't be used outside because the UV breaks it down, etc.

But in your lounge, you could use whatever you want!, but some wiring systems wouldn't look too nice

What did you have to do with your porch light, did you have to re-pot it? or did it just require a new locknut and sleeving?

 

[plugwash]

you can directly surface mount most cables it is just that most of them are either rather vulnerable to damage (T&E) or physically massive (SWA).

MICC is thin, the copper tends to blend in well with brick or stonework and it is reasonablly tough (not as tough as SWA but a lot tougher than T&E). Also because of it's earthed metal layer it can be burried even if it is not in a safe zone. It also lasts practically forever as is as close to fireproof as any coper cable can be.

The downsides are it is pricey, you have to keep IR testing as if damp gets in or an end is badly made off the insulation resistance can plummet and it is going to to take a bit of practice to learn to do a neat job.