Wiring reroute

[whereismyhammer]

"The thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from"! I will screw the floorboards down but use Ideal connectors from screwfix which are permanent. It is good to know I was on the right track.

 

[blup]

I think two totally different issues are probably getting confused.

If it is conceivable that thee box could be regarded as 'accessible' then, yes, the requirements for 'protection against electric shock' would require that the box could not be opened 'without use of a key or tool' (416.2.4) - but that has got nothing to so with 'MF' or otherwise.

The box which becomes accessible if the floorboard to be lifted is accessible, hence the need for a zip tie. A screw which can mechanically loosen is not adequate.

Crimped or soldered joints are acceptable as 'MF', even if they are not enclosed in any sort of enclosure at all.

But they are accessible and therefore potentially dangerous unless they are insulated

 

[Murdochcat]

No, under a single floorboard which is screed down, no carpets, plenty of houses like that still, maybe a loose rug in the centre.

Not accessible imho but our big book doesn’t have a definition for accessible

 

[JohnW2]

The box which becomes accessible if the floorboard to be lifted is accessible, hence the need for a zip tie. A screw which can mechanically loosen is not adequate.

Are you talking about a screw on the enclosure (which, incidentally, WagoBoxes don't have)? If so,then what about all the 'accessible' electric accessories in your house - whose faceplates are 'only' secured by screws (which "can mechanically loosen"?). ... or are you perhaps talking about screws in the floorboards?

This is all so incredibly hypothetical. If a JB is in an 'inaccessible' location, how on earth would any screws securing it "mechanically loosen" to the extent of presenting any risk to someone was managed to 'access' it? Are you thinking about 'rodents with screwdrivers', oee what?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Not accessible imho but our big book doesn’t have a definition for accessible

Indeed. As I've said, there surely should be at least some 'guidance'.

In thee absence of any guidelines, and given that what we are talking about is "accessible for inspection and testing", as I've said I think a senoible rule of thumb would be to regard something as 'inaccessible' if one considered it 'unlikely' that an EICR inspector would find (and then 'inspect and test') it (or necessarily even look for it)

 

[blup]

Are you talking about a screw on the enclosure (which, incidentally, WagoBoxes don't have)? If so,then what about all the 'accessible' electric accessories in your house - whose faceplates are 'only' secured by screws (which "can mechanically loosen"?). ... or are you perhaps talking about screws in the floorboards?

This is all so incredibly hypothetical. If a JB is in an 'inaccessible' location, how on earth would any screws securing it "mechanically loosen" to the extent of presenting any risk to someone was managed to 'access' it? Are you thinking about 'rodents with screwdrivers', oee what?

Kind Regards, John

A wago connector is not mf unless installed in accordance with the MI's as well as falling within the exception to the regs by complying with BS5733 for a maintenance free accessory. A screwed in socket faceplate doesn't fall within that reg because its accessible. IIRC wagos have a cut out for zip ties and hager jb's a clip both of which form part of the MI's instructions. So the OP connecting the cable ends by ideal push fit will fail the test of mf accessory unless he argues successfully that the junction is accessible. Which brings in my point about using an mf jb in any event to ensure safety. Otherwise sparky's would be still be taping over terminal blocks.

 

[JohnW2]

A wago connector is not mf unless installed in accordance with the MI's as well as falling within the exception to the regs by complying with BS5733 for a maintenance free accessory.

That is true but, as I said, the MIs are totally daft in this respect(I wrote "...no matter what the manufacturers might say {-) " ), since thee requirement for something to be 'MF' only arises if in is 'inaccessible', and if it's inaccessible, then having the box kept close by a cable tie does not make a jot of difference to anything! Given the choice between common sense and silly MIs, I know which I would be inclined to follow.

Although well-intentioned, even the regs aree a bit daft in having requirements relating to things which aree inaccessible - since,if they are inaccessible, no-one will ever be able to ascertain (other by believing what people tell them) that the regs have been complied with!

A screwed in socket faceplate doesn't fall within that reg because its accessible.

Indeed.

IIRC wagos have a cut out for zip ties ...

They do. As I said, since there is nothing other preventing the box being opened 'by hand', it is essential (to com[ply with 416.2.4) to install that cable tie if the box IS accessible.

and hager jb's a clip both of which form part of the MI's instructions.

The Hager/Ashley ones do have a clip (easily overcome 'without a key or tool') but they also have a screw (but you don't appear to trust screws), but they have no manufactured provision for a cable tie.

Kind Regards, John