wood worm and wet rot in loft

[masona]

The wood worm however IMHO needs a full loft chemical treatment .

JFC have you read this? It's fightening that the diy shops are still selling the woodworm killer products


http://www.askjeff.co.uk/content.php?id=8

 

[JFC]

Some good points but from the picture you can see the frass from the flight holes . I doubt that has been there for a hundred years . The flight holes are an indication that the beetle has left that part of timber , this doesn't mean it has left the area , it more than likely has flown to the next rafter to start again . With wet rot in the loft it is clear that the loft is not a dry area .
I did my apprentership with a Dry rot/Wet rot/woodworm company and have seen the damage these things do if left . Also the chemicals we used where in no way "safe" . Customers had to leave the property for 48 hours and the sprayers wore serious face masks .

 

[Softus]

Customers had to leave the property for 48 hours and the sprayers wore serious face masks .

This is no more that the precautions that ought to be taken (but never are) when using pretty much any solvent/oil based paint or varnish.

 

[anobium]

http://www.askjeff.co.uk/content.php?id=8[/QUOTE]

What a load of misleading bo**ocks from a person who is primarily only bothered about producing good copy.
For example he says that the beetles need moisture, and without it the infestation cannot survive.
The average moisture content in the timber in most houses is around the 10% mark even with central heating.
He only refers to one type of insect when there are 5 types who cause damage of economic importance in this country.
Yes there are companies who will carry out treatments when it is not necessary just like there are columists who will bend the truth just to get their name in print.
I have seen very severe structural damage caused by wood boring insects which has entailed reinforcement of structural timbers.
Likewise I have seen infestations where no treatment was necessary.
The important thing is first to identify if the infestation is active.
If you want to do it yourself hoover up all the dust and debris from the affected timbers.
Leave them until late April early May and the check for the presence of fresh bore dust.
If fresh dust is present along with new flight holes the infestation is active and you will need to have the timbers treated.
The treatment is the same for most types of insect unless you happen the live in parts of Surrey where you can get the house longhorn , or in a very old cottage constructed with oak where you can get Deathwatch.

 

[JFC]

I hear rumours that the house longhorn is into west / sw London now . Do you know if this is true ?

 

[anobium]

I hear rumours that the house longhorn is into west / sw London now . Do you know if this is true

I haven't heard if that is true, but if it is I don't envy anybody who has a house in that area.
Do you know that you can actually hear them chewing the wood and the grubs are approx 25mm in length.
For the benefit of that so called expert I previously referred to, these insects actually come from that rain soaked area called Spain. They seem to manage quite well without moist wood.

 

[JFC]

Interesting , have you seen the longhorn ? I found what looked like small cigar stubs when i removed a window in Surbiton and saw the massive damage it did to the woodwork . I have never seen anything like it ! I begged the customer to get a pro opinion but he wasn't interested as he was abroad and selling the flat soon . I repaired the best i could and did the best i could with off the shelf chemicals at my own expense .

 

[anobium]

Yes, JFC, I have seen it. You tend not to get the large volume of flight holes as with other insects, but they are much larger in size.
Also what you normally find is that the timber on the surface seems fine.The problem is that the beetle leaves a skin on the surface of the wood and when you probe this with a screwdriver you find that the inside is just powder.
Not to sure what you have seen but under a x10 glass you will find that the bore dust of this insects is comprised of sausage shaped pellets if it is house longhorn.
Also the flight holes are oval shaped and around 8mm in diameter.
If you are unfortunate to have this insect it is not just a question of a quick spray , you usually have to remove and burn the badly affected timbers.
There has been a bylaw in Surrey for many years that because of this insect all new properties should use pretreated timber.

 

[philrosenberg]

Hey, sorry I haven't checked back for a while.

Well it's either the pixies drilling lot's of 1mm holes or he has woodworm . Quite a serious attack looking at the amount of flight holes . The wet rot doesn't look to bad and i think solving the problem ( a broken tile ?) and a chemical treatment will stop any spread of the rot . The wood worm however IMHO needs a full loft chemical treatment . Yes you should cut out all the infected timber with both types of rot but looking at the woodworm attack and flight holes i would expect the whole loft is infested with them or will be some time soon . Chemical treatment is the best way for you to go IMHO .

Yes that one beam is absolutely full of flight holes, however, neighbouring beams are hardly touched. You may be able to see that the beam edge to bottom of the photo is rough. I wondered if this was actually the very surface of a log where it hasn't been cut properly. If so then I guess this beam would have high sapwood content, making it extra tastey

The rot doesn't bother me too much, it is only in the eaves and has not got as far in as the outdide wall. It is only inthe two beams either side of the bathroom extractor outlet plate (the extractor sucks air from the bathroom ceiling and out of a plate in the soffit) and the pipe had come loose. So I assume this was the cause, which I have now fixed and will be treating the rot this wekend.

Someone said the fras clearly hasn't been there for a hundred years. I guess not, cos the house is nly 50 years old but as the beams were boarded over could it have been there 10 or 20 years.

The important thing is first to identify if the infestation is active.
If you want to do it yourself hoover up all the dust and debris from the affected timbers.
Leave them until late April early May and the check for the presence of fresh bore dust.

Exactly, I want to find if they are active. Unfortunately I am having the loft insulated next week, so, as I mentioned earlier, a friend recommended I paint the beams so I can see for sure in May if new flight holes appear. However I am concerned that if I paint it then the treatment (if needed) won't be able to absorb into the wood. Will woodworm treatment absorb through emulsion

I don't think any structuaral damage has occurred. The beam photographed is a ceiling joist. Some other nearby ceiling joists have a few holes but there are none in any of the roof beams.

If anyone can answr the paint question I'd be much obliged.

Cheers
Phil

 

[masona]

The important thing is first to identify if the infestation is active.
If you want to do it yourself hoover up all the dust and debris from the affected timbers.
Leave them until late April early May and the check for the presence of fresh bore dust.

Exactly, I want to find if they are active. Unfortunately I am having the loft insulated next week,

Might be an idea to leave the insulation on hold for the time being and it's getting warmer so you can investigate easier

 

[anobium]

Exactly, I want to find if they are active. Unfortunately I am having the loft insulated next week, so, as I mentioned earlier, a friend recommended I paint the beams so I can see for sure in May if new flight holes appear. However I am concerned that if I paint it then the treatment (if needed) won't be able to absorb into the wood. Will woodworm treatment absorb through emulsion

Your quite right if you paint the timbers this will prevent absorption of the insecticde in the wood.
Another way is to fill the existing flight holes with some filler, and any new holes that appear will confirm activity.
On a final point if you examine the existing flight holes very closely you will see that most are filled with dust and dirt. These are obviously old flight holes, but if you see some that are bright and clean and have very sharp edges then there is every possibility that the infestatation is active.
The only other way is to take a sample of wood and have it x/rayed.

 

[philrosenberg]

Cheers for all the input guys.
When the insulation fitters come round I'll probably ask them to leave that section bare. I'll have a good hoover up there, then come May I'll know the score.

Cheers
Phil