Woodex for sash windows

[NorthernLights811]

I was told by a joiner that he uses Woodex softwood to create sash windows.

I was wondering, is this good material?

 

[ronniecabers]

NOt being a carpenter can't answer , but my experience of softwood in windows is that it doesn't last

 

[Notch7]

WoodX is the trade name James Latham has given to its engineered timber.

The softwood engineered timber they use is made of exactly the same timber species: pine.

It certainly has advantages over solid pine:

the engineered timber is made of 3 laminations, the face pieces are virtually defect free: ie no knots, no resin pockets, no splits. It’s far more stable than making windows out of solid softwood

Does your joiner use finger jointed or solid? - I’d guess fingerjointed, in softwood the fingerjointing can Telegraph through the paint finish visually


I wonder how honest your joinery company is being….

sliding sash windows are constructed with either weight boxes, which are thin timber - so wouldn’t be laminated. Or spiral balance which are big sections not likely to be made from engineered unless they use door bottom engineered section.

the cill can’t be engineered as the glue line would be exposed.

so the only Woodx parts would be the sash stile and rails








Personally I would strongly recommend engineered Siberian larch over softwood - but I doubt it’s available due to Russian sanctions

when I ran a joinery company I used to import engineered Siberian larch from Germany - a fantastic product, it’s as dense as hardwood, growth rings just 1mm apart and very stable.

 

[mrrusty]

If you are making sash windows yourself, or parts for them, get some accoya. Arnold Laver will sell it to you in small quantities. It has many advantages, including easy to machine and does not move about with humidity (or only very very small unnoticeable amounts). It's not cheap but once made they will be extremely durable. If you do go this route, post again with more information about what you are doing, because I have a fair bit of experience using it for my own windows and doors, including sash windows and happy to pass on what has worked for me.

 

[Diver Fred]

Can you clarify what you referring to please.
By 'Sash' do you mean a complete window where the opening section slides (either vertically or Horizontally >Yorkshire Sash) or just the sub-frame that the glazing is in?

What I'm seeing more often is the sub-frame which I know as the 'Light' is referred to as 'Sash' even in casement windows. I'm confused as the son of a midlands C&J who always referred to the sub-frame as a 'Light' and a Sash window was the complete window.

 

[NorthernLights811]

WoodX is the trade name James Latham has given to its engineered timber.

The softwood engineered timber they use is made of exactly the same timber species: pine.

It certainly has advantages over solid pine:

the engineered timber is made of 3 laminations, the face pieces are virtually defect free: ie no knots, no resin pockets, no splits. It’s far more stable than making windows out of solid softwood

Does your joiner use finger jointed or solid? - I’d guess fingerjointed, in softwood the fingerjointing can Telegraph through the paint finish visually


I wonder how honest your joinery company is being….

sliding sash windows are constructed with either weight boxes, which are thin timber - so wouldn’t be laminated. Or spiral balance which are big sections not likely to be made from engineered unless they use door bottom engineered section.

the cill can’t be engineered as the glue line would be exposed.

so the only Woodx parts would be the sash stile and rails








Personally I would strongly recommend engineered Siberian larch over softwood - but I doubt it’s available due to Russian sanctions

when I ran a joinery company I used to import engineered Siberian larch from Germany - a fantastic product, it’s as dense as hardwood, growth rings just 1mm apart and very stable.

He said that he's using Woodex for the inside and European red pine for the external? If I remember well. The windows will be weight-balanced. He's also going to call FENSA on days 2 and 3 of the installation, if that means anything.
So I think you're spot on.
Why do you reckon he's not being honest?

 

[NorthernLights811]

Can you clarify what you referring to please.
By 'Sash' do you mean a complete window where the opening section slides (either vertically or Horizontally >Yorkshire Sash) or just the sub-frame that the glazing is in?

What I'm seeing more often is the sub-frame which I know as the 'Light' is referred to as 'Sash' even in casement windows. I'm confused as the son of a midlands C&J who always referred to the sub-frame as a 'Light' and a Sash window was the complete window.

First time I hear about the "Light" windows.
It's the one that the bottom half slides to the top. I think the old ones used to slide from the top to bottom as well, but that's not something I'm after, nor do I know whether that's possible or handy. I've never opened my current ones from the top because they're painted and stuck.

 

[NorthernLights811]

If you are making sash windows yourself, or parts for them, get some accoya. Arnold Laver will sell it to you in small quantities. It has many advantages, including easy to machine and does not move about with humidity (or only very very small unnoticeable amounts). It's not cheap but once made they will be extremely durable. If you do go this route, post again with more information about what you are doing, because I have a fair bit of experience using it for my own windows and doors, including sash windows and happy to pass on what has worked for me.

I've read about Accoya and its benefits. I'll ask my joiner whether he works with Accoya, but it's not that I'd distrust Woodex altogether. Also, not sure about price diff, if it's 10-15% more, maybe worth going with something tried and tested.
Having said that, I do believe any wood of that class would be fine, he also provides 30 yrs warranty on the wooden part of the window too, so maybe that says something.

 

[NorthernLights811]

Also, just googled this:

Capture

• NorthernLights811
• 2 May 2022

The things you learn when you search!

 

[Diver Fred]

Thank you for answering.
So I would say the only parts of the Sash Window that can be made from 'Woodex' is Top, Bottom & Meeting rails and the Sash Stiles; possibly the Head and Cill. All due to the cross-sectional dimensions of the material, typically 50x50mm.
The remainder of the timber components are much thiner (6 & 12 to 20mm) as those are constructed from boards.