Worried about existing RSJ... Help?!

[shamblehouse]

Hi,

New to this, and owning a shambolic house, so please help if possible.

Basically, recently bought a house with an existing RSJ with no docs - it was done a *long* time ago, probably pre 1984.

We have a bouncy floor (hopefully more to do with lack of 'noggins'?) and wanted to check the RSJ, so have pulled up floorboards but can't really see it - it juts down into downstairs ceiling and is boxed in.

We can however see the the bottom of the upstairs brick wall (runs along RSJ line) kind of 'floating' - it seems to sit on a couple of loose bricks wedged with wood underneath, which I presume are then on the RSJ, which is too low too see (plaster and lath ceiling seems to run to just above the top edge of RSJ).

I'm really panicking about how safe it is, and as I'm about to redecorate the bedrooms and replace floorboards etc this is the time to sort it.

Should I get a builder? Structural engineer? Council bod?

Is there a relatively simple way I could establish the RSJ size and safeness myself? For example if I removed the boxing in would there be a code or something? Would I be able to see the padstones - if they are there?!

Or am I worrying about nothing given how long it has been up for, and should just look at installing noggins between joists to solve the bouncy floors?

Would really appreciate any advice/experience! Many thanks!

Edit - also the upstairs joist just seem to sit on the RSJ, without any kind of fixing. So I presume they move around a fair bit.. is this normal/ok/unsafe? If it is the root of the bouncy floor, how could it be solved? Ta!

 

[theprinceofdarkness]

You say that the uper wall is "floating above the RSJ. Is this a double brick wall without a cavity? it just that the RSJ has been OK for 28 years so There won't be a great problem. If you are really worried about the RSJ size, get a coat hanger straighten it out and form a little elbow at one end. You (with some luck) will be able to wriggle it across the top of the RSJ, hook the hook over and mark the bit on your side, then when its extracted measure the distance between the hook and the mark, repeat for the vertical axis.
What I would do is to tighten up the brickwork by driving in wooden wedges between the RSJ and the bottom brick, then fill the gap either side of the wedge with mortar. When the mortar has gone off, withdraw the wedge (screw in the end and a crow bar, fill this hole as well. The brick work should be OK now. Drill it and plug it to fix ends of joist to brickwork either via noggins or angle brackets.
The reason that the floor is springy is that as the joist are not held down at one end one or more joist has bent a bit,.
lifting all the ends of the joists off the RSJ
Frank

 

[^woody^]

If it has not fallen down after 30 years, then it is probably safe to assume that it is OK.

Signs of distress are significantly cracked ceilings and walls, not the wall " floating" above the beam

From what you describe, no work is required to the beam or wall.

Noggins can sometimes reduce the spring in a timber floor, but it depends on the most section size ..... it might be normal.

 

[shamblehouse]

You say that the uper wall is "floating above the RSJ. Is this a double brick wall without a cavity? it just that the RSJ has been OK for 28 years so There won't be a great problem. If you are really worried about the RSJ size, get a coat hanger straighten it out and form a little elbow at one end. You (with some luck) will be able to wriggle it across the top of the RSJ, hook the hook over and mark the bit on your side, then when its extracted measure the distance between the hook and the mark, repeat for the vertical axis.
What I would do is to tighten up the brickwork by driving in wooden wedges between the RSJ and the bottom brick, then fill the gap either side of the wedge with mortar. When the mortar has gone off, withdraw the wedge (screw in the end and a crow bar, fill this hole as well. The brick work should be OK now. Drill it and plug it to fix ends of joist to brickwork either via noggins or angle brackets.
The reason that the floor is springy is that as the joist are not held down at one end one or more joist has bent a bit,.
lifting all the ends of the joists off the RSJ
Frank

Brilliant - thanks. Some great tips and solutions there. Cheers!

 

[shamblehouse]

If it has not fallen down after 30 years, then it is probably safe to assume that it is OK.

Signs of distress are significantly cracked ceilings and walls, not the wall " floating" above the beam

From what you describe, no work is required to the beam or wall.

Noggins can sometimes reduce the spring in a timber floor, but it depends on the most section size ..... it might be normal.

Other parts of the house are suffring some cracks, but nothing that seems linked to the RSJ. Thanks for the reassurance!