Would a wireless thermostat suit - and CAN I INSTALL?

[clemenzina]

I've searched the forum but found no helpful answers.

Equipment:
Potterton Puma 80e combi boiler, installed 10+ years ago
Dial thermostat - working OK

Problem:
The thermostat is situated on a wall in a lounge with a huge south-facing bay window. Hence, when the sun's out, the lounge is like toast and the boiler (in the kitchen fitted on the inside of the back wall of the building) rests complacently doing nothing, whilst the back of the flat is arctic. The most crucial room affected is a bed-sitting room cum sick room.

When the thermostat is turned up sufficiently to trigger the boiler, the lounge becomes unbearably hot. If I turn off the radiators in the lounge, then it will never reach the temp set by the stat and the heating will be on permanently.

I did have a thermostat valve put on the bedroom radiator years ago but have only found that useful for turning it OFF.

re Wireless Thermostat:
One of the answers I found here said (something like) "that would be like using it as a remote control for the central heating because you don't want to get out of bed" in a joky way. That's exactly what's needed.

(1) How are these things installed?

(2) Would this fit the bill? http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/honeywell-y6630d1007-wireless-analogue-room-thermostat---hc60-set/ ...or please recommend a specific one.

(3) Please tell me (pensioner, female, bit of arthritis in hands) I can do it myself.

clemenzina

PS - The asterisks have replaced a Latin word commonly used to indicate 'dual purpose', whose homophone can be found between Strictly and Dancing.

 

[D_Hailsham]

To answer the last question first:

(3) Please tell me (pensioner, female, bit of arthritis in hands) I can do it myself.

Have you successfully done any electrical work yourself previously? If so, you shouldn't find it difficult to swap thermostats. The wireless stat is in two parts - transmitter (user control) and receiver. The receiver can be installed where the existing stat is, using the same wires; the transmitter can be then be installed wherever you like - providing there is good reception at the receiver. The advantage of wireless is that you can experiment with transmitter location.

Dial thermostat - working OK

Make and model please - just to check the wiring.

(2) Would this fit the bill? http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/honeywell-y6630d1007-wireless-analogue-room-thermostat---hc60-set/

Yes

When the thermostat is turned up sufficiently to trigger the boiler, the lounge becomes unbearably hot. If I turn off the radiators in the lounge, then it will never reach the temp set by the stat and the heating will be on permanently.

That's understandable. The thermostat needs a working radiator giving of heat.

I did have a thermostat valve put on the bedroom radiator years ago but have only found that useful for turning it OFF.

Sounds as if either the radiators were not balanced properly or the radiator was not large enough for the room.

PS - The asterisks have replaced a Latin word commonly used to indicate 'dual purpose', whose homophone can be found between Strictly and Dancing.

 

[clemenzina]

Have you successfully done any electrical work yourself previously?

I can change a plug. I have, in the past, built my own and others' PCs, self taught - but that's not electrical, of course, just jigsaw puzzle construction. (I personally have a rather short fuse but should be OK if left in peace to concentrate.)

the transmitter can be then be installed wherever you like - providing there is good reception at the receiver. The advantage of wireless is that you can experiment with transmitter location.

Oh, so it couldn't be 'portable'?

Thermostat - Make and model please - just to check the wiring.

I was praying you wouldn't ask, it's not too accessible. It's a Honeywell with no visible model number. There may be a fuzzy pic attached, I've just uploaded one to album.

Me - I did have a thermostat valve put on the bedroom radiator years ago but have only found that useful for turning it OFF...
You - Sounds as if either the radiators were not balanced properly or the radiator was not large enough for the room.

The radiator is about 10ft long it must have been going cheap when they converted the flat. What I mean is, the central heating has to be activated by the main thermostat for that radiator to come on at all, so I can't regulate with that valve except to turn the heat in the bedroom down or off, not to switch the central heating on if it's off... Ooh, me 'ead's spinning.

I'm OK understanding that the room thermostat would be replaced by the receiver for the wireless transmitter, but not about how the said transmitter works and how it's installed.

Thank you for your patience,

clemenzina

No image showing, but I did upload one to un-private album.

 

[PerryOne]

Where you have only one zone then wherever the thermostat is placed somewhere will be hot and somewhere cold.

I have solved this in other homes by installing two or more thermostats in different rooms to work as required as the sun moves round a home.

At the moment I have my bungalow divided into two zones, living and sleeping, each with its own wireless controlled thermostat, these stats are totally portable and one sits beside me in whichever living room I am in, and the other sits on my bedside cabinet in whichever bedroom I am using. At the same time, all radiators have thermostat valves, to stop the rooms I am not in getting too hot. I have also arranged the plumbing so that the heating comes on in the bathroom and toilet regardless of which zone is on, this ensures these rooms are always warm.

So, yes you can do it, yes more than one zone is a bit mind bending but, adding another thermostat to another room is quite easy as all you do is join the wires to the existing thermostat or boiler.

Why not add thermostats to each of your radiators at the same time?

 

[clemenzina]

adding another thermostat to another room is quite easy as all you do is join the wires to the existing thermostat or boiler.

Oh is that all? I can see me tacking wires up and thru walls and along ceilings

Why not add thermostats to each of your radiators at the same time?

Sore knuckles and money

clemenzina

 

[gas4you]

many of the new wireless stats come with a 'table mount' so they can be stood in any room you want. This is ok if you have an older system with no TRV's on each radiator.

I your case, no disrespect intended, you post fills me with the fear that you would not be safe to carry out such an installation.

I would recommend getting the job done for you by someone qualified

 

[clemenzina]

In your case, no disrespect intended, your post fills me with... fear

I appreciate your restraint but I'm not quite closing the door on it yet. I won't do anything hasty.

clemenzina

 

[D_Hailsham]

Have you successfully done any electrical work yourself previously?

I can change a plug.

That should be good enough - at least you know what colours the line and neutral wires are. Wiring a thermostat, including a wireless, is no harder than wiring a plug.

the transmitter can be then be installed wherever you like - providing there is good reception at the receiver. The advantage of wireless is that you can experiment with transmitter location.

Oh, so it couldn't be 'portable'?

Yes the transmitter controller would be portable and, as G4U said, some come with table mounts. The reception problem only really raises its head if you have two or three walls between the transmitter and receiver.

It's a Honeywell with no visible model number.

That's good enough

The radiator is about 10ft long; it must have been going cheap when they converted the flat. What I mean is, the central heating has to be activated by the main thermostat for that radiator to come on at all, so I can't regulate with that valve except to turn the heat in the bedroom down or off, not to switch the central heating on if it's off.

One of the disadvantages of TRVs is that they do not control the boiler - OK you can get wireless TRVs which can control the boiler, but they cost about £80 each and need a special controller. With the normal set-up, if the room thermostat is not calling for heat, the TRV is ineffective.

Some advocate having the thermostat in room which needs to be the hottest, so other, cooler, rooms will be controlled by their TRVs. Others say that the Room stat should be in the coldest area. e.g the hall, so it will take longer to heat. and leave the stat going for longer.

What you cannot do is have a room stat and a TRV in the same room; they will conflict. If the TRV is set to 20 and the room stat to 21 the room will get up to 20 and the TRV will close the rad. It won't matter how much longer the boiler runs, the room stat will never reach 21. And if you set the TRV to 21 and the room stat to 20, the boiler will close down at 20 and the room will never reach 21. And, as you have found the TRV has to be either at max or off.

I'm OK understanding that the room thermostat would be replaced by the receiver for the wireless transmitter, but not about how the said transmitter works and how it's installed.

The transmitter does not need to be "installed" it is a free unit - think of it as being like the remote control of your TV. You just mount it on the wall in a suitable location; no wiring required - it runs on standard batteries which last about two years.

You set the required temperature using the dial of the transmitter, which then sends a signal to the receiver instructing the boiler to turn on or off. There are more sophisticated wireless programmers which allow you to set the times and the temperatures.


Come back, if you decide to go ahead and install it yourself, and someone will guide you through the process.

 

[clemenzina]

I think the next step is to order that Honeywell, do you see any objection to this one, going cheap on eBay?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONEYWELL-WIR...3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:4|65:1|39:1|240:1318

I will not hold you responsible, I just need it checked that there's nothing missing.

clemenzina

 

[D_Hailsham]

I think the next step is to order that Honeywell, do you see any objection to this one, going cheap on eBay?

I will not hold you responsible, I just need it checked that there's nothing missing.

It appear to be all there but it doesn't say if its new or second hand; might be worth checking. If second hand, get the seller to confirm that the two parts do communicate properly. Also does it come with user and installer instructions.

 

[clemenzina]

He had 10 of them, all new, they're all gone now Ah well, your questions will prepare me for the next bargain to come up

Thank you!

clemenzina

 

[cyberbub]

Hi Clemenzina, I hope you or someone is still following this thread and can help with a couple of queries I have:

(a) how are the wireless receivers powered? Do they have to be connected to the live and neutral inside the boiler? If so does this mean that the receiver has to sit inside the boiler too - will all the things going on inside the boiler not cause interference to the receiver? Alternatively, can the receiver be positioned externally and powered from an outside power source, perhaps even plugged directly into a standard mains socket? I suppose then that the connection from the receiver into the boiler might be trickier. On a final point, my boiler is located only 1m from my fridge. If I put the receiver externally then ideally it owuld be on the wall between the two... in which case might the fridge's motor interfere with the receiver's reception?

(b) I am thinking of buying a straightforward thermostat with no programmer, since I already have a clock and programmer integrated into the boiler. But if I connect the receiver to the pins inside the boiler, will this mean that the stat will become the only controller, overriding the programmer? Obviously this would not be good - I would want there to be an 'AND' relationship, ie. both the integrated programmer AND the receiver to be activated in order for the boiler to start. In this case what happens if the wireless stat sends an 'on' trigger some time before the integrated programmer is set to start its programme - will the 'on' signal be missed? Alternatively, should I just get a wireless programmer, and set the integrate programmer to 'always on'?

(c) how does it usually work with the hot water on demand. If I connect a wireless receiver, will this control only the boiler for the radiators, or will it also control the hot water?

Thanks very much - my head is spinning!

Cyberbub

 

[clemenzina]

Your questions have boggled my mind, Cyberbub I am not at all qualified to answer them.

The item under discussion here replaces a ROOM THERMOSTAT controlling the temperature at which central heating switches on/off, it's in 2 parts: one part replaces the main, fixed room thermostat, and the other part is portable and communicates with the main thermostat from other areas of your premises which may be (say) colder than the room where the main thermostat is, and tells main thermostat to switch on the central heating according to the temperature of the room where the portable sensor is. The portable unit is powered by batteries.

It has no effect on the hot water system/heating.

That's "AS FAR AS I KNOW"!!!

I haven't got mine yet, domestic upheavals have prevented me from going ahead with the plan, so I'm reliant on an electric fire in my freezing north-facing room, because my current thermostat is in a warm, south-facing room

clemenzina

 

[simond]

The thermostat will be wired in between the programmer and your central heating 'on' wire on the motorised valve.

Good practice dictates that you power the stat from the same mains source used for the boiler so that there remains a single point of isolation for the entire boiler system.

Diagrams are readily available for the wiring.

 

[PerryOne]

The wireless receivers are powered by the mains supply and you should wire them back to the boiler but, they can be anywhere, usually somewhere in the middle of the building where they will best pick up the signal from the transmitter.
Then they merely turn on the pump to make the heating run, so have to be wired back.
You can wire it back to the programmer.
The transmitter is always on, sending either I'm hot enough, turn off, or too cold turn on.
If you do a bit of research, a bit of meter reading, you will no doubt find that turning the heating off and letting the home cool down, uses more heat to get back to a comfortable feeling, than you will save in the off period. That is to say that, while the air reading may tell the heating to go off. Your feeling of comfort due to warm walls and furniture will come several hours, possibly days later. Its better to turn the heating down 1 to 3 degrees, this way you get back to comfort quicker and the walls become a heat store smoothing out the ups and downs of the weather.