Ze Query

[STI]

BAS, apologies , i read it quickly and i missed the "a new A"

 

[Jacobssi]

Ok so the plot thickens.

If I now take a visual look at my water pipes in my airing cupboard I can trace the bonding cable back to the shower in the next room and find that the bonding orginates from the earthed point here and follows the fault line of the showers circuit conductor. So it is connected back to my CU MET via the shower cpc.
I'm not great at recognising cable sizes but I would guestimate it being a 6mm

 

[1john]

Because that calbe is local supplementary equipotential bonding.

You main equipotential bonding conductors should originate from the MET and run to within 600mm of the stop tap on the water supply and gas meter, or where the gas supply enters the property and must be, in both cases, before any branches are taken off of the pipe work.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Back in May, I raised this concern about the way you seemed to be trying to learn by asking questions with no discernible structure:

Is this topic, in fact, to be a long set of questions on random regulations which aren't clear to you?

If so, would you not find it easier to get a good book or two on the regs, as they will have been specifically written to explain them?

To which you replied

Yes BAS it will be a thread of questions. I have yet to recieve my book that I'm going to get and in the mean time I'd just. Like to ask questions here as I go along the book otherwise I'll forget by the time I get the book and than I can make notes in my book ....

And you weren't wrong.

Later in that same topic you wrote this:

Thanks spark but apparently it is 5s.
Two hours after posting that I took my C&G 2382 and that came up! Of all the questions... Going through the regs this last week,there are so many contradictions! by the way, anyone know what 125 v D.C is classed as? Extra low/low/ reduced low/ SELV I went for low

Subsequent to that we find that you don't actually know how to do basic design calculations: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=233723.

Here we find that you're playing around doing testing: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=238914

Here you're asking about a tool "to use as an electrician": //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=234098

Your history of posts here is still showing an overwhelming tendency to consist of random questions.

In this topic you're asking about how to fill in EICs and yet now we find that you don't even know what supplementary equipotential bonding is.

I don't know what your eventual aim is, or what learning processes you've been through, but they don't seem to have worked very well so far.

Will you PLEASE get yourself onto a properly structured learning programme where you start at the beginning, you start with the basics, and you build up from there in a logical and methodical way.

 

[Jacobssi]

I have no gas pipes and the only pipes on display is in the airing cupboard. If it's connected back to earth via the shower cpc.

Does this defy regulations?and if so how?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

FFS

You are David Cockburn and I claim my £5.

 

[1john]

I have no gas pipes and the only pipes on display is in the airing cupboard. If it's connected back to earth via the shower cpc.

Does this defy regulations?and if so how?

So you have no gas supply to your property??

The services entering the property require bonding back to the main earthing terminal so that they are all at an equal potential.

You have a water supply to your property, where this enters the property there should be a stop tap before the pipe work branches off anywhere, you are required to bond to this pipe within 600mm of the stop tap and before any branches. The same would go for any other services, oil, gas ect.

This has got nothing to do with supplementary equipotential bonding.

 

[Jacobssi]

Back in May, I raised this concern about the way you seemed to be trying to learn by asking questions with no discernible structure:

Is this topic, in fact, to be a long set of questions on random regulations which aren't clear to you?

If so, would you not find it easier to get a good book or two on the regs, as they will have been specifically written to explain them?

To which you replied

Yes BAS it will be a thread of questions. I have yet to recieve my book that I'm going to get and in the mean time I'd just. Like to ask questions here as I go along the book otherwise I'll forget by the time I get the book and than I can make notes in my book ....

And you weren't wrong.

Later in that same topic you wrote this:

Thanks spark but apparently it is 5s.
Two hours after posting that I took my C&G 2382 and that came up! Of all the questions... Going through the regs this last week,there are so many contradictions! by the way, anyone know what 125 v D.C is classed as? Extra low/low/ reduced low/ SELV I went for low

Subsequent to that we find that you don't actually know how to do basic design calculations: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=233723.

Here we find that you're playing around doing testing: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=238914

Here you're asking about a tool "to use as an electrician": //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=234098

Your history of posts here is still showing an overwhelming tendency to consist of random questions.

In this topic you're asking about how to fill in EICs and yet now we find that you don't even know what supplementary equipotential bonding is.

I don't know what your eventual aim is, or what learning processes you've been through, but they don't seem to have worked very well so far.

Will you PLEASE get yourself onto a properly structured learning programme where you start at the beginning, you start with the basics, and you build up from there in a logical and methodical way.

Sorry BAS I forgot you're a clever dick who knows everything and has never needed to ask for advice in their life.

I'm sorry that I'm below you in the scale of knowledge in this chosen subject and that you have to stoop down from your high throne to entertain the 'little' people like me.

I'm sorry that I bore your evenings when your reading through people's problems.

But what I am happy for is that I've at least given you something to pick at and break down and insult.

Take care.

PS John, I never said it had anything to do with supplementary bonding. I was just merely stating what I see with my own eyes which I never installed and questioned because I thought it was wrong. Thank you for your time.

 

[1john]

I dont mean any offence here but you do infact seem either clueless or absolutly confused about earthing and bonding. Perhaps a fresh summary of what you have gone through in this post might help either dismiss or clarify that.

If you think something doesn't comply with the regs, say why you think that is, or try and look it up. We are willing to help but as you seem to be trying to self educate yourself it may be better if you were guided in a way in which you explain your reasons or logic for what you are thinking and then you can be congratulated for being correct or redirected where you have gone wrong.

We all learn from our mistakes

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sorry BAS I forgot you're a clever dick who knows everything and has never needed to ask for advice in their life.

I'm sorry that I'm below you in the scale of knowledge in this chosen subject and that you have to stoop down from your high throne to entertain the 'little' people like me.

I'm sorry that I bore your evenings when your reading through people's problems.

But what I am happy for is that I've at least given you something to pick at and break down and insult.

Take care.

You just don't get it, do you.

You are flitting around from one aspect of electrics to another, never fully understanding one before you zoom off to something else, with no structure, no plan, no laying down of foundations and building each new bit of knowledge and understanding on a firm basis of interlocked knowledge and understanding already gained.

If your learning plan was a building it would have collapsed long ago as you got bored before finishing the footings, got bored before building all of the walls and tried to start constructing the roof in thin air.

PS John, I never said it had anything to do with supplementary bonding.

You called this topic "Ze query", and began it with "My main bonding conductors...".

We then had over 2 pages of posts about main bonding conductors.

And then you wrote "Ok so the plot thickens" and started going on about one of your supplementary equipotential bonding conductors. Why?

 

[Jacobssi]

Ok basically I'm confused because I was under the impression that pipes have to be bonded at their first point of entry before any branch work.

The main bonding conductor to the incoming water does not go back directly to the MET but goes to the shower CPC in the next room.

This to me is wrong because it does not go back to the MET and is as you say a supplementary bonding conductor.

What's confused me is if a live part was put to the pipe a fault current would flow back via the shower cpc. Or am I wrong?

But why was it done this way?

I know it's wrong but frankly I'm not filled with much confidence and I'm too embarrassed to give my opinion which is why I'm fishing for one first.

 

[Jacobssi]

So BAS you are arguing because I flit from question to question like an excited 5 year old asking questions to the grown ups?

If that's the case I'll stop asking questions. I ask questions as I come across things or if I spot things in my flat/work/general life.

I'm noticing everything around me and questioning as I come across it. Apologises if that doesn't suit you.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The main bonding conductor to the incoming water does not go back directly to the MET but goes to the shower CPC in the next room.

But my two main bonding conductors, one running to my water pipes in the airing cupboard and one to the kitchen, both originate from inside the cutout.

Can you make your mind up, please?

This to me is wrong because it does not go back to the MET and is as you say a supplementary bonding conductor.

If it is as you have now described then:

1) It is not wrong, it is a perfectly correct supplementary equipotential bonding conductor. What's wrong is the lack of main bonding.

2) What's suddenly happened to the conductors which run from the water pipes to the earth terminal in your cutout?

What's confused me is if a live part was put to the pipe a fault current would flow back via the shower cpc. Or am I wrong?

You aren't wrong about that, but you are confused about the purpose of equipotential bonding. It is not earthing.

And here we go again. You sat your 2382 when you were not ready to do so. Yes, you may well have passed it, but that's because it's too easy to pass, not because of what you knew, and the reason you weren't ready is that you did not embark on a properly structured programme of learning.

If you had you would not be sitting here with a qualification but still not understand how ring finals work and how to actually use the information in the regulations to design circuits and not be sitting here saying that you're a qualified electrician but you don't know enough to act like one.

So BAS you are arguing because I flit from question to question like an excited 5 year old asking questions to the grown ups?

An excellent question.

Perhaps you should try and answer it yourself.

It might help you to do so by considering why we have schools and curricula and standardised tests to measure achievement. Why we have carefully crafted textbooks. Why people who want to teach others first themselves have to be taught how to teach. Why we don't leave a child's education to progress, and his knowledge and understanding to grow, on the basis of him just asking questions.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions per se, but you are clearly basing your entire learning strategy on it, and that is wrong.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

HI Jacobssi,

Not wishing to sound rude, but the manner in which you post does give rise to concern as you suggest that you are practising filling out EIC's.

IMO, this is something that can only be done when you are able to identify the components you are working with and have practical knowledge of what they do.

I understand that you have apologised for using what you refer to as 'incorrect terminology' and that is humble of you and deserved respect. However, it doesn't inspire any confidence that you failed to identify the difference between a meter and a cut-out. (this is so basic, you really should have not had any confusion here) You failed to correctly identify the various conductors within your earthing and bonding structure. Some people will argue the finer points of why and how this structure works, but again, this is really basic stuff and should be easy to figure out for anyone with a reasonable understanding of UK domestic installations

You may not like the tone that Sheddy used toward you, but overlooking that, the core of what he says is correct.

Might i politely urge you to stop trying to solve problems that you are not really in a position to deal with.

Maybe this will help you:-

http://www.e-lec.org/content/view/1228/1/