Seven FCU's in one kitchen!?!

camdiyer · 25 Jan 2009

Hi, i am planning a refit for our kitchen and upon reading up on Part P regs it appears I will need no less than 7 FCU at various locations amongst the tiles above the kitchen bench:
- 1 for Fridge since access to the switched connection is otherwise behind fridge (Maybe I won't need this if the fridge is wired as a dedicated circuit from a new 17th edition consumer unit which is to be fitted?)
- 2 for 2 plinth heaters (these are low power, they run a fan only, and are heated via plumbing)
- 1 for hood fan/lighting
- 1 for gas hob
- 1 for clothes washer
- 1 for under-unit lighting (low voltage lighting)

Does this seem ridiculous? There will be more of these switches than there are outlets! Can someone suggest a sensible alternative setup? Ultimately I will get a Sparky on site, but I want some idea what to expect - maybe there is a creative solution to this he won't consider... Can I conceal any of the FCU inside kitchen cupboards? I've read that you can't run multiple devices off one FCU, that they must be 'accessible', and so on... If I run the hood fan/lighting and under-unit lighting off the light circuit then no FCU is needed, right?

Thanks for your help

sparkyspike · 25 Jan 2009

No it's quite normal. If using a seperate fridge circuit (advisable anyway) then use a 20A DP switch instead of a fcu. You could wire the u/c lights on the lighting circuit and run the plinth heaters off one fcu going to a double socket. Keep the cooker hood on a fcu, not on the lighting circuit.

That will give you 4 fcus and a DP. But an extra lightswitch may be required for the u/c lights.

Taylortwocities · 25 Jan 2009

For a largish number I would put a centralised grid switch with 20A switch and fuse for each item. It can be on a wall away from the 'work area'.

Who is to do the work? You or an electrician?

camdiyer · 26 Jan 2009

Thanks for the replies. I am planning to get an electrician for the work, although I'd like to save money and do any simple prep work I can prior to final wiring and sign-off by the electrician.

I am getting more ideas - some questions follow...

Taylortwocities - please elaborate - so you suggest one visible switch, and fuse plates can perhaps be located out of sight in appropriate nearby cupboards, or do they still need to be amongst the tiles above the workbench?

My friend's house (a 5-year old build) appears to have the gas cook-top powered via the 40A oven breaker. At least there is no FCU visible for the cook-top. Actually I didn't pull his oven fuse to confirm the precise situation. An in-line fuse would be required at some point, but we couldn't find it in his cupboards... Can anyone elaborate on this setup - it could save me one FCU?

For the hood FCU (or ring-main switched outlet) - can it be located at the back of an adjacent overhead cupboard? I've seen this in some kitchens (including my current kitchen) but am not sure it meets today's regs...

If the dedicated fridge circuit has a dedicated RCBO (appropriately rated) at the consumer unit then does this in any way remove the requirement for a the visible FCU/fridge switch on the kitchen wall? The fridge would then be powered via a dedicated switched outlet concealed at the rear of the underbench cupboard beside it.

ban-all-sheds · 26 Jan 2009

camdiyer said:
Thanks for the replies. I am planning to get an electrician for the work, although I'd like to save money and do any simple prep work I can prior to final wiring and sign-off by the electrician.

That's not how it works.

Read this //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:part-p so that you know how it works, and find your electrician before you do a single stroke of work or make any irrevocable design decisions - she must be in absolute charge and anything you do must be under her guidance and supervision, as she is the one who will have to sign to say it's AOK.

Taylortwocities - please elaborate - so you suggest one visible switch, and fuse plates can perhaps be located out of sight in appropriate nearby cupboards, or do they still need to be amongst the tiles above the workbench?

No. Click.

My friend's house (a 5-year old build) appears to have the gas cook-top powered via the 40A oven breaker. At least there is no FCU visible for the cook-top. Actually I didn't pull his oven fuse to confirm the precise situation. An in-line fuse would be required at some point, but we couldn't find it in his cupboards... Can anyone elaborate on this setup - it could save me one FCU?

No it couldn't - if he hasn't got one it's wrong, and not entirely safe.

For the hood FCU (or ring-main switched outlet) - can it be located at the back of an adjacent overhead cupboard?

No - it should be accessible.

I've seen this in some kitchens (including my current kitchen) but am not sure it meets today's regs...

It didn't meet yesterday's either.

Kitchen fitters are notoriously bad at doing things properly.

If the dedicated fridge circuit has a dedicated RCBO (appropriately rated) at the consumer unit then does this in any way remove the requirement for a the visible FCU/fridge switch on the kitchen wall?

FCU yes.

Visible switch no.

The fridge would then be powered via a dedicated switched outlet concealed at the rear of the underbench cupboard beside it.

Concealed is wrong.

sparkyspike · 26 Jan 2009

camdiyer said:
If the dedicated fridge circuit has a dedicated RCBO (appropriately rated) at the consumer unit then does this in any way remove the requirement for a the visible FCU/fridge switch

No, it still needs accessible isolation. TTC means one of these:

http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/i...&sigr=1265u1toh&sigi=11e9strhi&sigb=133bfk4p1
kind of.

ban-all-sheds · 26 Jan 2009

camdiyer · 26 Jan 2009

That's not how it works.

Read this electricsart_p so that you know how it works, and find your electrician before you do a single stroke of work or make any irrevocable design decisions - she must be in absolute charge and anything you do must be under her guidance and supervision, as she is the one who will have to sign to say it's AOK.

I do plan to do that and in fact this discussion is the prelude to an on-site visit. I wonder, will I be able to find an electrician who is happy to provide detailed guidance and specification (including wire gauge, wire placement, and component selection, etc) prior to me commencing any work, and assuming I follow it exactly, then test sign-off the work at a later date? At what stages should they inspect my work in progress? The legislation from which Part P is derived doesn't appear to preclude the above scenario?

Quote:
Taylortwocities - please elaborate - so you suggest one visible switch, and fuse plates can perhaps be located out of sight in appropriate nearby cupboards, or do they still need to be amongst the tiles above the workbench?

No. Click.

Yes, I can use Google too. However, I didn't see an immediate answer to my specific question regarding the location of the fuses associated with the appliances on the grid switch. I've also read that all bench switches must be within 2m of the appliance they are switching, which makes sense. I want to fully understand the limitations of the grid switch approach.

1-0.

Ban-all-sheds - Please elaborate?

nickp34 · 26 Jan 2009

We have a grid switch in our Kitchen. It is located in the back of one of the cupboards.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r73/nickp8/XL800723.jpg

It is made by RPP. http://www.proteusswitchgear.co.uk/product_details.asp?product=4251

holmslaw · 26 Jan 2009

ban-all-sheds · 26 Jan 2009

camdiyer said:
I wonder, will I be able to find an electrician who is happy to provide detailed guidance and specification (including wire gauge, wire placement, and component selection, etc) prior to me commencing any work, and assuming I follow it exactly, then test sign-off the work at a later date?

Don't know, but I can guarantee that you will absolutely not find anyone to sign it off after the event, with no prior involvement, unless they are bent.

At what stages should they inspect my work in progress?

Down to them.

The legislation from which Part P is derived doesn't appear to preclude the above scenario?

Nope - as long as the electrician signs it off in exactly the same way that they would if you were their labourer/apprentice told to "chase out that wall there and run this cable down it"...

However, I didn't see an immediate answer to my specific question regarding the location of the fuses associated with the appliances on the grid switch.

Hopefully nickp's photo has clarified it - it's not a single switch, it's several switch modules with associated fuses in a single grid.

I've also read that all bench switches must be within 2m of the appliance they are switching, which makes sense.

Guidance - not mandatory.

1-0.

Click to expand...

Ban-all-sheds - Please elaborate?

In-joke...

RF Lighting · 26 Jan 2009

nickp34 said:
We have a grid switch in our Kitchen. It is located in the back of one of the cupboards.

What's the point of that then? They might as well have not bothered at all.

It is made by RPP

nickp34 · 26 Jan 2009

It is in bottom part of a cupboard above the worktop and accessible just standing in front of the cupboard. Better than having 6 visible FCU on the wall tiles above the worktop.

ban-all-sheds · 26 Jan 2009

nickp34 said:
Better than having 6 visible FCU on the wall tiles above the worktop.

No it's not.

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Seven FCU's in one kitchen!?!

sparkyspike

sparkyspike

holmslaw

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