Air vent required for open gas fire?

No because as you state the instructions state it does not need a vent.


A point people are missing is that yes with modern construction there is less adventicious ventilation but now all LFE fires i can thik of now have OXy pilots fitted.
 
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The oxy pilot operates when the oxygen level falls.

It does NOT operate if the carbon monoxide level rises which will be very likely to have happened a considerable time before if the oxygen is low.

I would therefore conclude that the most important use they will have is to turn off the gas before the flame is stifled and unburnt gas continues to flow.

As mentioned the most important part of the installation is to close all the doors and do the spillage test !

Tony
 
You will still get your adventitious ventilation, otherwise a quiet night in with friends would turn into a mass suffocation suicide.
 
you would need ventalation if it where a dfe.

but not ness if ilfe if manu says so
 
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Hmm im lost....!

Anyway, the MI (hey Im catching on) say "Normal advantageous ventilation is usually sufficient to satisfy the ventilation requiremnts of this appliance. In GB reference should be made to BS 5871 Part 2 and IE...... which makes clear the conditions that must be met to demonstrate that sufficient ventilation is vailable.

To me that says Im OK but I presume part 2 of the regs says I must do a spillage test and 'prove' I have enough ventilation.
 
Yes and with the doors and windows closed and all the extract fans on !

Tony
 
BS 5871 part2.
LFE gas fires of heat input not exceeding 15Kw.

It should be noted that the only appliances covered by this part of BS 5871 are those that are CE marked. However BS5871-2 may be used also be referred to for the installation of used appliances, where appropriate, providing the MI are available. In such circumstances, the installer should satisfy himself that the appliance is safe in construction and condition, and can be used without constituting a danger. Attention is drawn to clause 5 concerning this particular aspect.

Arising from the European standards harmonisation, some British Standards appliances specifications are now being replaced by European Standards. One consequence of this process is that the reference clearance flue flow test, currently included in some British Standards covering the safety of appliances dealt with by BS 5871, will not be given in European appliance Standards. This test has hitherto been used to determine the flue flow, under laboratory conditions, that an appliance will just clear its combustion products. The test has been used as a key factor in determining whether or not certain appliances of 7Kw heat input or less require purpose provided ventilation for their installation.

LFE fires.
Flue size: Minimum of 125mm across axis line of flue normally required.
Ventilation; Purpose provided ventilation not normally required up to 7Kw input.

Where appropriate, permanent ventilation shall be provided in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.
An open-flued appliance with a rated input not exceeding 7Kw and which generates a clearance flue flow not greater than 70m3/h under specified conditions (see annex B) does not normally require an air vent in the room or internal space in which the appliance is installed. This is due to natural or adventitious ventilation through, for example, floorboards, cracks in window frames and doors, etc. However, the dwelling can be affected by double glazing, cavity wall insulation, draught proofing, its method of construction, the insulation of extraction fans and so on. Attention is drawn to the commentary and recommendations on 19.4 concerning installations deficient in ventilation.

19.4: The fire shall be checked for spillage in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

Where any room of the premises is fitted with a fan (e.g. extract fan or a fan incorporated within an appliance), the operation of the fan (s) shall not adversely affect the performance of the flue when the flue is tested in accordance with BS 5440-1.
The fire should first be tested with all the windows and doors closed in the room of the installation and with any fans in the room running. If there is a fan in an adjacent or nearby room, the test should be repeated with all interconnecting doors open and the fan in operation. If spillage is evident in any of these cases (including the situation in which no fan is present). The test should be repeated with a window slightly open. If the fire now clears its products of combustion then additional ventilation should be provided. Where spillage continues, the fire should be removed and both the appliance and the flue examined; removal of any spigot restrictor may improve the performance.
 
adventitious air was calculated by sealing a room in a lab the best they could.i:e double glazing etc etc. so the current 7kw is still standard.
 
My inspector has told me that he expects to see a 100cm2 vent in every DFE installation regardless of what the MI's say.

I thought it a bit strong but that was during my initial corgi interview / assesment / torture / 2 hours grilling.

Not being one to rock the boat at that moment in time, I somehow found myself agreeing with him. I know that MI's supercede all but there could be something in it as most new houses I see have vents even if they are stuffed full of old socks and I know that usually the builder will put one in because he is unsure what sort or size of fire is to be connected. Bit like shall I have 1 or 2 pints and drive the law should be more clear cut I know I have opened myself up for some ridicule here but hey ho just my opinion.

Cheers all Clive
 
ididdidi,

if you follow 19.4 above you cannot go wrong irrespective of what the manufacturer's say.
 
ok my pennys worth.
is 6.85 kw.net or gross.
if it is 6.85 kw net.it is very close to the magical 7kw rule.
so to prove it is rated correctly a gas rate calculation is req
other questions need to be answered ie is there any other fuel buring appliance in same room.
has chimmney been swept.suitable.
makers instructions have to be read and understood.

a job for corgi with gas fire experience.
 
Just a point about the oxypilot it is tru it only work when oxygen levels fall but it does not measure the entire room only whats around it and since most gas fires are low level and carbon monxide is heavier than oxygen it would in theory shut off before the inevitable.....unless your lying on the floor and the fire is wall mounted but hey thats your own fault for not having a sofa!!
 
It is worrysome but if you've followed the Man. Instructions during installations and then carried out flue flow and spillage tests with satisfactory results - remember to close doors/windows/operate fans etc - then you're hunky dory.

Maybe you could still err on the side of safety and fit a small vent. Just record evrything / take pictures.
 
changes brought about due to double glazing and the likes have reduced adventitious air these days as tony has said. Current building regs now require the installation of air vents in new properties and extensions for habitable rooms of 8000mmsq and 4000mmsq for non habitable rooms.

I'm sure it won't be that long before there will a change to the rules to remove this adventitious air allowance.
 

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