DIY Electrical Installation Work

[Spark123]

They can use what they like, as long as they do not start picking and choosing and then referring to is as a British Standard.
If BS7671 is used to claim compliance with P1 then it should be in full.
If only scraps of it are used then it is up to them to show how it meets P1, but it is no longer meets the requirements of the british standard.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The basis of any discussion is that you do not answer a question with a question, unless your motive is to confuse, be evasive or just unhelpful. A basic rule that both of you choose to ignore.

Can you please show us where I have done that here?

 

[FingRinal]

What would you advise people to do in order to ensure that they comply with P1?

Comply in full with BS7671. Whether or not they do so in reality is neither here nor there, but I can not advise them to not comply in full with BS7671.

It's also my opinion that I don't think anyone should advise anyone else to not comply in full with BS7671.

 

[FingRinal]

So if you were doing that, what "Design" would you want to see for the addition of a light switch?

To which standard or bespoke design does the existing installation comply with? To which standard or bespoke design will the addition comply with?

If the answer is BS7671, then the 'design' would be in compliance with BS7671 and the addition would be I&T in accordance with BS7671.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They can use what they like,

Are you prepared to give anybody advice on what to use, or to say what you think they should use?

as long as they do not start picking and choosing and then referring to is as a British Standard.

So is it OK for people to follow some of the requirements of the IEE Wiring Regulations if they aren't able to follow all of them?

If BS7671 is used to claim compliance with P1 then it should be in full.
If only scraps of it are used then it is up to them to show how it meets P1, but it is no longer meets the requirements of the british standard.

I've lost count of the number of times I've reiterated that my positon is not that people claim compliance with P1 via complying with BS 7671 as a standard, i.e. formally with the whole thing.

It all hinges on the question which neither you nor FR have answered:

Do you think there is any value in a DIYer following any of the provisions in BS 7671 if he is unable to follow all of them?

 

[GaryMo]

There has to be a value but you can't claim to have complied with BS7671. This would be the result of most DIY electrical work carried out.

 

[Spark123]

If it ensures they are working safely then I have nothing against them using part the document, however unless it is used as a whole, I don't believe they can use it as a standard in a court of law to claim compliance with a statutory document.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So if you were doing that, what "Design" would you want to see for the addition of a light switch?

To which standard or bespoke design does the existing installation comply with? To which standard or bespoke design will the addition comply with?

Careful - you'll have holmslaw on your case - he thinks that answering a question with a question means that your motive is to confuse, be evasive or just unhelpful.

But in answer to yours, let's say that we assume the existing installation does or once did comply with BS 7671, but that as no up to date paperwork exists for it we cannot be certain to what extent it still complies.

i.e. it's like 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of houses in this country.

If the answer is BS7671,

It is, subject to the above caveat.

Then the 'design' would be in compliance with BS7671

What evidence of such design would you want to see before you began your I&T work?

If a DIYer wanted to add a light switch in his bathroom what advice would you give him on how to go about designing it so that it complied with P1?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If it ensures they are working safely then I have nothing against them using part the document,

Well that's a start....

however unless it is used as a whole, I don't believe they can use it as a standard in a court of law to claim compliance with a statutory document.

OK - so what do you think they can use to claim compliance with P1?

What advice would you give to people on how they should comply with it?

 

[FingRinal]

Then the 'design' would be in compliance with BS7671. What evidence of such design would you want to see before you began your I&T work?

My copies of BS7671, IEE Guidance Notes, OSG, Approved Doc P etc...and sight of all 1st fix.

If a DIYer wanted to add a light switch in his bathroom what advice would you give him on how to go about designing it so that it complied with P1?

IEE OSG, IEE Guide to Building Regs, Approved Doc P.

 

[Spark123]

OK - so what do you think they can use to claim compliance with P1?

Ask their LABC if they are that interested. I personally think that it being done safely is more important. It is not my place to start deciding what other methods comply with P1, we are told by LABC that adherance to BS7671 is one way of complying with P1.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My copies of BS7671, IEE Guidance Notes, OSG, Approved Doc P etc...and sight of all 1st fix.

Err - your copies?

Do you mean that you'd want to see that the designer owned those documents?

IEE OSG, IEE Guide to Building Regs, Approved Doc P.

So would you expect to see compliance with all of those, or just parts of them?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ask their LABC if they are that interested.

So in other words if a DIYer asked your advice on a DIY site on how he could comply with P1 you wouldn't be prepared to help him?

I personally think that it being done safely is more important.

OK - so returning to the example of a DIYer wanting to add a light switch in his bathroom, what advice would you give him regarding doing it safely?

 

[Spark123]

I would try to help, but IANAL.

My opinion, electrical work in a bathroom should be done by a qualified electrician owing to the increased shock risk.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You're entitled to your opinion, and you're entitled to wish that the law agreed with you, and you're entitled to refuse to help people because of your opinion.

But then I do kind of wonder what the point is of you being on a DIY advice site.