Garden room height came out at 2540mm!! 40mm over the what it should be :(

[berty3000]

It wouldn't be expedient to take enforcement action over 40mm. They shouldn't even invite you to apply for planning permission if they know in advance that planning permission is likely to be granted, which it probably would if you're only a very small amount over the permitted development allowance and no significant harm has been caused, which your photos suggest is the case. You could do nothing at all and be fine from a planning perspective.

If you want to sell in future then you might need to regularise the situation with a planning application to satisfy a fussy buyer. Ideal would be for it to be within PD regs as you can then apply for a certificate of lawfulness which is a little more straight forward. But either way is fine in this situation.

If you want to build the ground up a bit to make it PD, that could work providing they don't have any unambiguous evidence that you've done so. Has somebody taken photos and reported your building to the council? The council officers aren't going to try and figure out if or how the land levels have changed. Without any survey evidence it would be a guess unless really significant changes have occured that would be obvious even on an angled photo. You will simply state that some landscaping works have taken place and the ground levels are no higher now than they were before, with the part near the outbuilding always being a little higher to begin with. It's more or less the same. Then your new flags can probably be accepted as ground level. In the absence of clear evidence to the contrary they'll likely accept your version of events especially being so close to the margins.

As discussed above though, you won't get into any trouble for 40mm. Even if they were silly enough to serve a notice you'd win the appeal. The flags idea is nice because if you can achieve PD criteria then it makes things slightly more straight forward if you ever cared to regularise matters. Not that you ever need to.

Ps. I'm assuming PD rights were not removed for your property. Happens sometimes for new builds from the more recent past, but not often.

Pss. Might be worth removing the photos from this thread as a precaution.

 

[Sitries1]

It wouldn't be expedient to take enforcement action over 40mm. They shouldn't even invite you to apply for planning permission if they know in advance that planning permission is likely to be granted, which it probably would if you're only a very small amount over the permitted development allowance and no significant harm has been caused, which your photos suggest is the case. You could do nothing at all and be fine from a planning perspective.

If you want to sell in future then you might need to regularise the situation with a planning application to satisfy a fussy buyer. Ideal would be for it to be within PD regs as you can then apply for a certificate of lawfulness which is a little more straight forward. But either way is fine in this situation.

If you want to build the ground up a bit to make it PD, that could work providing they don't have any unambiguous evidence that you've done so. Has somebody taken photos and reported your building to the council? The council officers aren't going to try and figure out if or how the land levels have changed. Without any survey evidence it would be a guess unless really significant changes have occured that would be obvious even on an angled photo. You will simply state that some landscaping works have taken place and the ground levels are no higher now than they were before, with the part near the outbuilding always being a little higher to begin with. It's more or less the same. Then your new flags can probably be accepted as ground level. In the absence of clear evidence to the contrary they'll likely accept your version of events especially being so close to the margins.

As discussed above though, you won't get into any trouble for 40mm. Even if they were silly enough to serve a notice you'd win the appeal. The flags idea is nice because if you can achieve PD criteria then it makes things slightly more straight forward if you ever cared to regularise matters. Not that you ever need to.

Ps. I'm assuming PD rights were not removed for your property. Happens sometimes for new builds from the more recent past, but not often.

Pss. Might be worth removing the photos from this thread as a precaution.

Great advice. Thanks. I’m going to lay the extra slab just for extra piece of mind to know that if/when she measures the highest point it will come out at 2.5m.

To answer your questions - I’m pretty sure it’s a neighbour from another street (road behind) who’s complained because I’ve had beef with her in the past (‘getting her own back’ scenario). She’s trying to build 30 houses on a field next to my neighbours garden so we all lodged appeals against it. I’m not sure what evidence she has (if any). I think it’s her just trying to throw a spanner in the works and cause some unnecessary grief for me.

My property has permitted development rights so I don’t see that there should be any issue.

 

[^woody^]

I’m going to lay the extra slab just for extra piece of mind

Don't bother, it wont give you piece of mind.

The criteria for the measurement is ground level, and it specifically does not include anything laid upon the ground such as paving or decking or suchlike.

 

[Sitries1]

Don't bother, it wont give you piece of mind.

The criteria for the measurement is ground level, and it specifically does not include anything laid upon the ground such as paving or decking or suchlike.

That May be the case, but since groundwork has taken place, there is no way of them knowing what the existing ground level was. Laying the extra slab will sufficiently ‘blur the lines’ and I can make the case that the existing ground level was in line with the top slab prior to the ground works taking place.

 

[jeds]

There is no floor area rule for planning purposes, but E.1 (j) of the GPDO does restrict capacity of the building to a maximum of 3500l.
From your dimensions, I'd say your building floor area is about 15m², which at 2.5m high would be a capacity of 3750l. So, your visiting planner will measure the height and will not be bothered about 40mm excess but, if he mentions capacity, things might get a bit trickier?

The other points about floor area - 15m², 30m² etc - are building control issues. Nothing to do with planning.

 

[mrrusty]

I'd say your building floor area is about 15m²

Nah, I reckon it's more like 13.6m2

 

[Sitries1]

There is no floor area rule for planning purposes, but E.1 (j) of the GPDO does restrict capacity of the building to a maximum of 3500l.
From your dimensions, I'd say your building floor area is about 15m², which at 2.5m high would be a capacity of 3750l. So, your visiting planner will measure the height and will not be bothered about 40mm excess but, if he mentions capacity, things might get a bit trickier?

The other points about floor area - 15m², 30m² etc - are building control issues. Nothing to do with planning.

The plot thickens! I’ve never heard anything about capacity mentioned before but since it’s a flat sloping roof - the front (only) is 2.5m and it slopes down to 2.4m at the back which may reduce the capacity and get my under the 3500?

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

There is no floor area rule for planning purposes, but E.1 (j) of the GPDO does restrict capacity of the building to a maximum of 3500l.
From your dimensions, I'd say your building floor area is about 15m², which at 2.5m high would be a capacity of 3750l. So, your visiting planner will measure the height and will not be bothered about 40mm excess but, if he mentions capacity, things might get a bit trickier?

The other points about floor area - 15m², 30m² etc - are building control issues. Nothing to do with planning.

The capacity limits only apply to a "container", e.g. heating oil, gas, water tanks etc. 3750l is a big tank but a very small building, e.g. 2m height x 1m width x 1.875m long = 3.75m3 = 3750 litres, basically the floor area of a pallet and a half. So don't take any notice of this.

The whole PD rules are appallingly badly written, there are ambiguities all over the place. E.g. if you have a corner plot and want to build a garage to the side you can't as an extension, as that would be disallowed by the building line on the side street. But you can build a detached garage even 1 cm away from the house, right up to the side fence, as the rules for outbuildings allow anything behind the front of the house and don't consider the side street.

I'd hope it will get tidied up at some point in the future, but for now there are some ridiculous loopholes. One of which is the floor area. The one I'm building has 290mm thick cavity walls around 16m2 of floor area, it looks like half a house. But that thick wall doesn't add to the permitted area as it's not floor. So take advantage while you can, it will all probably get tightened up in future. Ask anyone what I'm building from a photo, most people would not call it a shed but it is according to the rules.

According to a few guides a floor area up to 30m2 is allowed in brick or block (non-combustible material). That is pretty much the footprint of a small house, then you're allowed a cavity wall as thick as you like around it.

 

[jeds]

That won't get you under 3500l, but I would be surprised if it comes up. I'll bet you 50p they measure and say; well, it's a touch over but no harm.

 

[mrrusty]

There is no floor area rule for planning purposes, but E.1 (j) of the GPDO does restrict capacity of the building to a maximum of 3500l.

It doesn't. 3500l (3.5m3) is nothing to do with buildings and all to do with tanks for oil and LPG. Ignore.

Permitted development
E. The provision within the curtilage of the dwellinghouse of—

(a)any building or enclosure, swimming or other pool required for a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the dwellinghouse as such, or the maintenance, improvement or other alteration of such a building or enclosure; or
(b)a container used for domestic heating purposes for the storage of oil or liquid petroleum gas.
E.1 Development is not permitted by Class E if—

(a)permission to use the dwellinghouse as a dwellinghouse has been granted only by virtue of Class M, N, P or Q of Part 3 of this Schedule (changes of use);
(b)the total area of ground covered by buildings, enclosures and containers within the curtilage (other than the original dwellinghouse) would exceed 50% of the total area of the curtilage (excluding the ground area of the original dwellinghouse);
(c)any part of the building, enclosure, pool or container would be situated on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation of the original dwellinghouse;
(d)the building would have more than a single storey;
(e)the height of the building, enclosure or container would exceed—
(i)4 metres in the case of a building with a dual-pitched roof,
(ii)2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within 2 metres of the boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse, or
(iii)3 metres in any other case;
(f)the height of the eaves of the building would exceed 2.5 metres;
(g)the building, enclosure, pool or container would be situated within the curtilage of a listed building;
(h)it would include the construction or provision of a verandah, balcony or raised platform;
(i)it relates to a dwelling or a microwave antenna; or
(j)the capacity of the container would exceed 3,500 litres.

The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015

This instrument consolidates with amendments, in relation to England, the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995 and subsequent amending instruments and revokes in relation to England the instruments listed in Schedule 4.

www.legislation.gov.uk

@ivorwindybottom gets the 50p - he got there first!!!

 

[^woody^]

.

 

[mrrusty]

it looks like half a house

Y mine is about 16m2 plus a verandah but with about 180mm walls (122mm SIPS + battening + cladding). It's near to my garage which is 9 x 3.3 in teh same cladding. My sparky asked if I was building a village!

 

[Murdochcat]

That’s not the case in the vast majority of areas.

I did say where WE LIVE

 

[cdbe]

Good god! 40mm! Just tell them the ground rose a few inches in that area and you had to dig it off before you did the paving. Ask them to confirm their no further action decision in writing and it'll be as good as a free LDC. It must be ruining the life of some mental neighbour to make them report it.

 

[Sitries1]

Ok guys so I have had the planning inspector here today. She was literally here for 5 mins and then left. She was only interested in the height and that was it (she measured off the grass and not the patio). She said it can be as big as you like (within reason) but it must be 2.5m height (if within 2m of the boundary).

This evening I have received the attached e mail and it seems I got lucky! It was 50mm too high (when measured off the grass) but they are willing to overlook it on this occasion.

Thanks for all the help and comments.