Farmer has cut my mains supply pipe!!!

[Agile]

The first think to do is to peruse the paperwork for the cottage.

If there is no mention of the water supply then you can take the stance that the landlord laid the pipe over his land to benefit the cottage which he later sold.

He failed to lay it to the established correct depth and did not advise the tenant. He is in breach of water regulations as well as subjecting the pipe to the likelyhood of the tenant farmer ploughing it up.

The landlord should reinstate the supply and have it burried at an adequate depth.

Tony

 

[Goldberg]

If there is no mention of the water supply then you can take the stance that the landlord laid the pipe over his land to benefit the cottage which he later sold.

Can you? Did you not read this:

...the evil squire, ie. it was he (or his noble forebears) who installed the pipework originally. He knows this and I know this but he has placed the burden of proof on us.

He failed to lay it to the established correct depth and did not advise the tenant.

Really? On what date did he fail to do it?

The landlord should reinstate the supply and have it burried at an adequate depth.

I wish someone would bury your 'advice' at an adequate depth.

 

[Norcon]

You're very clever Agile but there is something you have overlooked.
The OP has stated that a number of other homes are being supplied from this pipe so any paperwork ( and I doubt there is any) will only apply to the OP's home.

Landlord - 1
Homeowners - 0

 

[Goldberg]

You're very clever Agile

Is that some kind of joke?

 

[Andy4444]

OP back. Apologies for my apparant grandstanding but wife in hospital.

Agile..I know Goldberg has given you some grief but some (not all) of your comments have been constructive.

Incidentally, there are only two cottages on this mains supply. Also, the tenant farmer has been renting this field for generations....suffice to say and based on discussions with neighbours it was the farmer who ran the pipework under the watchful gaze of the landowner. In other words both landowner and farmer has their "eyes open" on this one.

 

[Nige F]

Ah, the Gas Gurus from the cities and the Barack room lawyers If I know anything about farmers....you might as well get digging

 

[D_Hailsham]

Reading your original post again and the reference to the Loss Adjusters comments, it is obvious that they are relying entirely on the word of the farmer and landowner and have not bothered to consult any document relating to the sale of the house. They will state definitively who owns the pipe and who is responsible for its upkeep.

Get hold of a copy of the deeds from the Land Registry. If the pipe is not mentioned in the deeds, then it is still the property of the farmer/landowner. This raises the question as to your rights to have water delivered through the pipe. To quote the deeds of my house:

The right of passage and running of water ... through the ... channels watercourses ... pipes .. serving the land ... .
How long has the pipe been there? If it has been there for several years you have probably acquired some rights and the farmer/landowner cannot force you to move the pipe.

Have you obtained any guide price how much it will cost to reroute the pipe?
Have you spoken to your insurance co? It may be covered by your household insurance?

 

[Andy4444]

The deeds of the property do not always contain a definitive deed/document which clarifies ownership and in the absence of this I think a prescriptive easement exists whereby an easement can be claimed after continuous use by the "non-owner" which I think (don't shoot me down) is 5 years.

D_Hailsham - you are right that the Loss Adjuster (acting on behalf of the Insurer) has based his view (putting his natural bias to one side) on nothing more than a series of assumptions and this is evident given the language he is using in his letter.

However, I spoke with the landowner today and on further questioning he thinks that the pipework was laid about 50 years ago....he knows when it was laid and always has done cos he did it.

I am taking on board what an earlier poster said about being pragmatic and not dogmatic and landowner is now saying he doesn't mind if we re-lay the pipe in his field (as oppose to the road next to the field) and he knows a fella (not in-house he is a private contractor) who will do it at around £3 per metre (which seems too good to be true) but I am going to speak to neighbour and then sit down with landowner to try and negotiate a three-way split.

 

[Corgigrouch]

At the risk of asking a really dumb question, but if your supply comes from a supply which serves the farmland, then how do you determine your water bill?

 

[Andy4444]

No it was installed originally to serve cattle troughs (not any more as land all arable) and then squire in a weaker moment allowed his farm labourers (pipe serves 2 cottages one of which is my home) use by teeing off the existing mains pipe...there is no water meter.

 

[FrankTrent]

When your CH packs up you call a CH Enginer. When you want legal advice you call a lawyer.
You will never recover from the farmer because you would have to prove that it is your pipe in the first place and that he has been negligent in cutting it. As a tenant he can hardly be negligent in damaging a pipe that he could not have been aware existed.
Even if you recovered from him, it is likely that your damages would be restricted to the cost of repairing and re-burying the pipe, rather than the cost of putting in a new supply along the lane. This is because you can only claim damages to put you back in the position you were in before you suffered injury and a new pipe along the lane clearly puts you in a better position.
The farmer has quite rightly referred all this to his insurer in anticipation of you mounting a legal claim against him. The insurer in turn has appointed the Loss Adjuster. The loss Adjuster is 'supposed to be neutral', but the insurer pays his fee.
The first thing you should do is, in liasion with the water board and your neighbours, obtain quotes for a new supply. You never know, it might be only £5,000 or so !
The second thing...get some legal advice

 

[Corgigrouch]

Or you could buy a spade and a big coil of pipe

 

[muggles]

The deeds of the property do not always contain a definitive deed/document which clarifies ownership and in the absence of this I think a prescriptive easement exists whereby an easement can be claimed after continuous use by the "non-owner" which I think (don't shoot me down) is 5 years.

D_Hailsham - you are right that the Loss Adjuster (acting on behalf of the Insurer) has based his view (putting his natural bias to one side) on nothing more than a series of assumptions and this is evident given the language he is using in his letter.

However, I spoke with the landowner today and on further questioning he thinks that the pipework was laid about 50 years ago....he knows when it was laid and always has done cos he did it.

I am taking on board what an earlier poster said about being pragmatic and not dogmatic and landowner is now saying he doesn't mind if we re-lay the pipe in his field (as oppose to the road next to the field) and he knows a fella (not in-house he is a private contractor) who will do it at around £3 per metre (which seems too good to be true) but I am going to speak to neighbour and then sit down with landowner to try and negotiate a three-way split.

Sounds like you're getting back to a sensible situation. I wouldn't push too hard for a three-way split, by all means ask but don't risk p*ssing him off cos he'll just change his mind and tell you to get your own supply, then you'll be back to square one. Make sure this £3 a metre is to a suitable depth (I'd suggest 1.2m to avoid the plough) and includes both labour and excavator hire/use. I would also strongly suggest that you get the costs, and the division thereof, agreed in writing before any work commences.

Good luck

 

[DIYedboy]

Having read this very interesting post, I have to say I feel sorry for ya Awowen, shelling out money for something you haven't done is tough, when this work is completed, will you then have an inferred legal right to this water pipe and supply through the field as you have repaired/installed it I wonder?

 

[doitall]

Having read this very interesting post, I have to say I feel sorry for ya Awowen, shelling out money for something you haven't done is tough, when this work is completed, will you then have an inferred legal right to this water pipe and supply through the field as you have repaired/installed it I wonder?

Said it before he already has that right.

The Landowner installed the water, and sold the properties on the strength of it.

The farmer has damaged the pipe, allbeit accidentally, then he has to re-instate it, or pay to have it moved.

There is no argument as far as I'm concerned.