ASHP - Wet system
- Thread starter ArgyllMC
- Start date
Sponsored Links
In that case the waste engine oil type can I suspect only be used in large oil burners or the specially designed burners and I doubt that it would be very sensible to try to use it in a domestic oil boiler in any significant concentration.
To burn only waste oils you need a permit from the local council as well as a supply of say 1000 litres per annum if to heat a house.
As far as I know its only expected to be used for workshop heating at or close to where the waste oil is produced like motor garages. You would also need a waste transfer licence to transport it.
Tony
To burn only waste oils you need a permit from the local council as well as a supply of say 1000 litres per annum if to heat a house.
As far as I know its only expected to be used for workshop heating at or close to where the waste oil is produced like motor garages. You would also need a waste transfer licence to transport it.
Tony
you suspect wrong then
what you mean the font of all knowledge that scrapes installers off the bottom of his shoes
aint got the answer
best advice i can give is
stop digging
oh and if your not sure ASK
what you mean the font of all knowledge that scrapes installers off the bottom of his shoes
aint got the answer
best advice i can give is
stop digging
oh and if your not sure ASK
- Joined
- 19 Feb 2006
- Messages
- 31,243
- Reaction score
- 10,570
- Country
If you'd have typed Kroll into google you'd have seen something like
View media item 10417
I never said to use a standard oil burner,what I said was it's the same setup.As for where and how it's applied...your suspicions couldn't be further from the truth.
View media item 10417
I never said to use a standard oil burner,what I said was it's the same setup.As for where and how it's applied...your suspicions couldn't be further from the truth.
Sponsored Links
P
Perfectionist
Depending on how much hot water you use, the Zenex is one of the few eco add-ons that does have a decent claw-back time. About 5 years. The price has dropped.The ATAG has one built in for no extra cost. In modern and well insulated homes, DHW can account for the majority of energy used. The ATAG does make sense. It is also a quality product.
It also makes sense to heat a direct unvented cylinder using the ATAGs highly efficient combi water section. Fit a Wilo bronze pump, cyl' stat and a Surrey flange and a 100 litre cylinder will outperform a 300 litre indirect cylinder heated by a system boiler. Switch off the bronze pump and the combi works as normal. When the bottom of cylinder is 1/3 cold the combi cuts in assisting the cylinder pouring in the equivalent of 15 litres/min to the cylinder's draw-off pipe. The DHW is heated the most efficiently you can get with a far cheaper, far smaller cylinder used. Do the sums and costing.
Solar can be cost effective if DIYed or built into a new build house. Preheating combi's is popular on the Continent. Alpha do a packaged solar/combi preheat. The ATAG combi can take preheated water.
Getting down to the bedrock (depending on location of course), and then fitting a concrete heat exchanger mated to the bedrock is more efficient. A Heat pump - heat concentrator. Look at:
http://www.ebuild.co.uk/forums/messages/3322/17635.html?1208929618
Post, 22 April, 2008 - 06:33 am. A guy called Lee. Is that you?
Concrete is a fair thermal conductor, at least compared to dry soil. The same with the bedrock that the concrete is bonding to. So, the area that you scavenge heat from is greater than if you were running through soil. Not a lot is scavenging from the soil above the concrete block.
You are alone claiming high efficiencies for ASHPs above condensing NG boilers. The whole system has to be designed right and highly efficient, and expensive ASHP unit. You say the SANYO is the best doing it. It would like to see test figures.
These make sense in whole housing estates. The electrical infrastructure can be cut back.
I don't disbelieve you, but I would need like for like test figures and costs, of a Sanyo GSHP vs. say an ATAG A325EC combi.
- Joined
- 19 Feb 2006
- Messages
- 31,243
- Reaction score
- 10,570
- Country
In relation to comparative running costs,we've done actual comparative studies on an actual site,so have many other companies and manufacturers.my claims are no different to anyone elses with industry experience in these fields.
As good as atag is it's still limited in efficiency.regardless of asho/gshp/chp manufacturer NG has no future.
Let's look at the code for sustainable homes,come 2016(code6) nat gas won't web be an option.all new builds are rated over a 25year payback plan.The coding is based on savings and runnings,read through what savings you achieve when fitting renewables compared to band a boilers.
Atag ec as a stand alone boiler is probably code 3.
As for what atag's can do in comparison to other boiler,you don't have to convince me.I've got an atag at home,I'm just finishing the solar preheat to it through an intasol valve.
As good as atag is it's still limited in efficiency.regardless of asho/gshp/chp manufacturer NG has no future.
Let's look at the code for sustainable homes,come 2016(code6) nat gas won't web be an option.all new builds are rated over a 25year payback plan.The coding is based on savings and runnings,read through what savings you achieve when fitting renewables compared to band a boilers.
Atag ec as a stand alone boiler is probably code 3.
As for what atag's can do in comparison to other boiler,you don't have to convince me.I've got an atag at home,I'm just finishing the solar preheat to it through an intasol valve.
vulcancontinental
Efficiencies of over 100% are due to the different calculation methods used by continental boiler manufacturers, who follow the DIN4702 standard, which takes net calorific value as the starting point.
The heat in the water can only go into the metal structure of the radiator and from there into the air. Where else can it go?
A radiator will give out different amounts of heat depending on the flow, return and room temperatures. That's why there is a standards method for testing them BS EN442. But that does not mean that the efficiency of the radiator changes. If the rad gives out 800W instead of 1000W, due to lower flow and return temperatures, the water flowing through the rad has also given up 800W.
You said: "if a radiator had an efficiency of 100% the return would be leaving at room temp." I misread this as flow temp.
I think the difference of opinion arises because I am only considering the steady state where the system has heated up to working temperature. In this state the boiler gives out heat to raise the temp of the water by 11C and the radiator gives out heat to drop the water temperature by 11C. The heat put into the water must equal the heat taken out of the water; if it didn't the temperature differential at the rad would be different from that at the boiler. (I'm ignoring pipe losses as that only complicates thing further.)
The water has obviously acquired latent heat when initially raising the water temperature from room temp. But this heat will eventually be given up when the heating goes off and the water cool down to room temperature.
So, over the complete, heat up - cool down cycle the heat given out by the rads must equal the heat put in by the boiler.
Efficiencies of over 100% are due to the different calculation methods used by continental boiler manufacturers, who follow the DIN4702 standard, which takes net calorific value as the starting point.
The heat in the water can only go into the metal structure of the radiator and from there into the air. Where else can it go?
A radiator will give out different amounts of heat depending on the flow, return and room temperatures. That's why there is a standards method for testing them BS EN442. But that does not mean that the efficiency of the radiator changes. If the rad gives out 800W instead of 1000W, due to lower flow and return temperatures, the water flowing through the rad has also given up 800W.
You said: "if a radiator had an efficiency of 100% the return would be leaving at room temp." I misread this as flow temp.
I think the difference of opinion arises because I am only considering the steady state where the system has heated up to working temperature. In this state the boiler gives out heat to raise the temp of the water by 11C and the radiator gives out heat to drop the water temperature by 11C. The heat put into the water must equal the heat taken out of the water; if it didn't the temperature differential at the rad would be different from that at the boiler. (I'm ignoring pipe losses as that only complicates thing further.)
The water has obviously acquired latent heat when initially raising the water temperature from room temp. But this heat will eventually be given up when the heating goes off and the water cool down to room temperature.
So, over the complete, heat up - cool down cycle the heat given out by the rads must equal the heat put in by the boiler.
P
Perfectionist
Right now NG is still the fuel to have because it is so cheap and appliances and installations so cheap to many others. I do not see that NG has no future.
Have you a link?
neat.
I thought you might have misread something somewhere but wasn't sure what. I thought it easier to agree to differ until the follow up post.
Your comment about rads picking up heat from the room when cold reminded me of a question I asked when a naïve apprentice "Why can we not pump refrigerant around a radiator system in the summer months?"
"You can" the lecturer replied "if you want condensation running down the radiators and dripping onto the floor!"
Happy daze.
Where did I say that? I think it's must be your turn to misread.
Where did I say that? I think it's must be your turn to misread.
You're right, I misread the part about picking up heat from the room which I thought you'd described as latent heat.
Rewind.
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
