Condensing Boiler Break Down In The Big Freeze? Here's Why.

[Corgigrouch]

Regardless of where or how the condensate pipe is run, If a so called state of the art boiler ceases to function just because of cold weather, then its surely not fit for purpose.

So by your logic, it would be perfectly fine to run all the pipework from the boiler outside the house and blame the boiler for your own stpidity when it all froze up.. If you teminated the flue in the customers living room, then would it be the fault of the boiler?

 

[mysteryman]

It is not the fault of the boiler or the boiler manufacturer if the condensate pipe freezes up. It is just bad installation.

 

[expertgasman]

[quote="mysteryman";p="1887788"]It is not the fault of the boiler or the boiler manufacturer if the condensate pipe freezes up. It is just bad installation.[/quote]

Haven't you taken ANY notice of the sensible post by the backward gasman?:

namsag:

Its wrong to say good installations dont freeze up there are other outside factors that can affect this namely the main soil pipe freezing up which does happen OR properly insulated pipes even above standard req that go into a soakaway and the ground /chips (around,within) are already frozen solid the condensate cannot get away and thus freezes in trhe pipe as it sits there.

The only way you could assure no frozen wastes is if every waste pipe that condensate was connected to was run within the buildiing and in this country its never going to happen


having said that, the OP's installation is well under par, by the evidence presented.

 

[gasbanni]

Thats very badly written He can also be very rude to people.

!!!!!!! your been rude saying its badly written some people may think your statement verging on hypocritical !

 

[jimhet]

Regardless of where or how the condensate pipe is run, If a so called state of the art boiler ceases to function just because of cold weather, then its surely not fit for purpose.

So by your logic, it would be perfectly fine to run all the pipework from the boiler outside the house and blame the boiler for your own stpidity when it all froze up.. If you teminated the flue in the customers living room, then would it be the fault of the boiler?

I haven't read or heard about any installations where the pipework from the boiler has been run outside the house, nor would I recommend it. However I have heard that close to 100,000 recently installed condensing boilers ceased to function because of cold weather. If that warped mind of yours somehow believes that scrambling around in 6 inches or more of snow and ice with a kettle of hot water trying to defrost a plastic pipe in order to get a nearly new boiler to start working constitutes progress, then dream on.

 

[boozercruiser]

That all seems to point all the faults to a very poor quality installation.

I suppose that you chose them because they were the cheapest?

Yet you still seem to blame the boiler!

Tony

Following your rather SNIDE a. malicious, supercilious
remarks above I have dug out my bill for the job of installing the Worcester 18/25 boiler, replacing two radiators and put in a new wireless thermostat.

27th July 2008....For that I was charged by...

RT Downs Limited
Heating Contractors
Unit 1
Mold Business Park
Wrexham Road
Mold
CH7 1XP
Tel 01352744909

OFTEC REGISTERED.

£1809.55 for Cost Of Materials
£1574.41 to compete work........Total £3383.96p

The pipework from the tank to the boiler 40 foot away was left as is.....but a new Tiger Loop was installed a few months ago.

So then Mr. Agile...you tell me...was that a cheap job? And even if it was are you saying that even some OFTEC registered heating installers are not to be trusted just because one has offered the cheapest quote?

For instance, how am I to know before hand that RT Downs are going to send an Electrician out who even wires up the garage frost sat which fuses the Boiler the very first time it calls for heat?

(PCB Fuse blows on C/H. External wired frost sat wired incorrectly both neutral and earth live on demand. Cold Weather. Removed cable from fused spar. Must be wired onto PCB frost terminal in boiler)

So...another few days without Heating or Hot Water in October waiting for RT Downs to send an Electrician to get the boiler working again.

So Mr. Agile....if I cannot blame the Boiler....whose fault are all the problems mentioned as per Worcester engineer reports then?

If it was a "Very poor quality (possibly cheap) installation"..............
please telephone RT Downs and advise them of that will you?
This would be appreciated!

I will accept an apology by the way.

P.S. Please don't tell me I was overcharged. Well...not you anyway

 

[transam]

IMHO one would be advised to stay away from worc condensing oil fired boilers , (having installed couple )

 

[boozercruiser]

IMHO one would be advised to stay away from worc condensing oil fired boilers , (having installed couple )

Yes...I agree....hindsight is a wonderful thing is it not?

 

[boozercruiser]

Complaining to Craig Hodgon Worcester Service Manager about constant Hot Water if the Heating is on even if the How Water is switched to OFF....his reply..

Craig Hodson
Area Service Manager........

"Finally to address your question regarding the timer on this appliance I can assure you the appliance and timer are operating correctly. This function is so as to react to a hot water demand as the appliance is a combi type boiler it needs to heat the water contained within the shell to a reasonable temperature to supply you with hot water on demand.

I apologise for any inconvenience caused with regard to this matter and hope this addresses the issues you have raised."

Yours Sincerely

Craig Hodson
Area Service Manager

So then, if I read him right...the Area Service Manager is saying that so long as I am calling for the Heating, then I have to have Hot Water whether I like it or not?

All I know is my Missus and I have just returned from a few days away. The Heating has not been on at all while we where away. The dishes are done...we don't need any Hot Water so I just put the Heating on....what do we get...a tank of Hot Water as well, even though we neither need or want it.

How waste full in both energy and cost.

Can any of you guys tell me if this is a normal happening on other makes of Combi Boilers?

Thanks.

Boozercruiser.

 

[ajrobb]

The letter claims you have a combi boiler but you say you have a HWC. Although it is possible to have both, it would be unusual. If you do have a HWC, you could fit multiple insulating jackets and lag the pipe coming out of the top.

Condensing boilers burn a fairly rich mixture and are on the edge of producing lots of poisonous carbon monoxide. Unless you have a boiler with Lambda control (sensing flue gas oxygen), you might be legally required to get your condensing boiler serviced every 2 years, which is likely to cost more than gas savings for a small house or flat.

Remember, the government have committed to reducing CO2 emissions and so force us to install only condensing boilers, even if total costs are not economical. I think there are clauses that still allow non-condensing boilers to be fitted. (If you live in a flat with cast iron drains you might get enough points to qualify).

On the other hand, if you want to rebuild a poorly insulated building much over 100 years old, you run against so-called conservation departments, determined to save every inch of lime-plaster cornice and draughty sash window.

 

[boozercruiser]

The letter claims you have a combi boiler but you say you have a HWC. Although it is possible to have both, it would be unusual. If you do have a HWC, you could fit multiple insulating jackets and lag the pipe coming out of the top.

Condensing boilers burn a fairly rich mixture and are on the edge of producing lots of poisonous carbon monoxide. Unless you have a boiler with Lambda control (sensing flue gas oxygen), you might be legally required to get your condensing boiler serviced every 2 years, which is likely to cost more than gas savings for a small house or flat.

Remember, the government have committed to reducing CO2 emissions and so force us to install only condensing boilers, even if total costs are not economical. I think there are clauses that still allow non-condensing boilers to be fitted. (If you live in a flat with cast iron drains you might get enough points to qualify).

On the other hand, if you want to rebuild a poorly insulated building much over 100 years old, you run against so-called conservation departments, determined to save every inch of lime-plaster cornice and draughty sash window.

Hi Ajrobb and thank you for your interesting addition to my post.

From the Worcester Manual they describe my boiler as....

'Oil fired Condensing Combination Boiler Conventional Flue and Room Sealed Flue'
For open vent and sealed central heating systems with domestic mains hot water. I see that the hot water is held in a 'Heatslave Tank' as part of the boiler.

My boiler has been serviced by Worcester twice on a yearly service up to now. As part of my 5 year guarantee I have to have the boiler serviced every year, and I will continue with that, even when the guarantee runs out.

By the way...and we all have our points of view on this.....but as far as I am concerned the CO2 emissions and the save the planet with Windfarms etc. etc. etc. thing is one great con.
And the forced must have a Condensing Boiler to heat and forced low energy light bulbs for light brought about by the likes of Prescott and Blair get me so ANGRY!

End of rant

 

[ajrobb]

Oil fired Condensing Combination Boiler Conventional Flue and Room Sealed Flue

Oil fired condensing boilers produce a mixture of nitric acid and sulphuric acid to rot iron and clay drains. Nice

I don't mind reducing carbon footprint, reducing oil imports from OPEC and Government support for same. The boiler scrappage scheme was reasonable encouragement but I do object to being dictated too though.

 

[boozercruiser]

"but I do object to being dictated too though."

Yes....and now one cannot even buy the type of light bulb one wants. As it happens I now have all ceiling and wall bulbs a mixture of low energy normal and very expensive LED GU10 bulbs.

BUT....I am doing that simply out of self interest to save some cash....not because I believe to do so is helping save the planet...because I don't.

Like you...it is the diktat I object to.

 

[boozercruiser]

Hello again,
I have not yet heard back from the Area Service Manager in respect of my further comments. In the meantime could someone please help me with information in respect of the supply of Hot Water from my Worcester condencing Boiler.

As previously mentioned, so long as my boiler is calling for Heat then it automaticaly calls for Hot Water, even if the Hot Water is set to OFF with the on board programmer.

Is this just the way EVERY condensing boiler is designed to work, or is this action just designed into Worcesters Boilers alone?

 

[Terrywookfit]

All oil fired combi boilers operate this way.
It is not possible to have a low water content heat exchanger and modulating burner with oil.
Therefore a buffer tank is heated to transfer the heat via a plate heat exchanger when demanded.