Permitted Development - can neighbours object or appeal?

[DevilDamo]

Ok, yes... that is true. I apologise.

However, anybody can object to works that may fall within PD. An objection would result in a complaint, which would result in a planning officer inspecting and the necessary action taken. Hence why clients should go down the CoL route to prevent this from happening.

 

[^woody^]

However, anybody can object to works that may fall within PD. An objection would result in a complaint, which would result in a planning officer inspecting and the necessary action taken.

Jesus, this is getting hard work

Look, if someone does work and it is PD, it matters not if anyone complains, or if planners investigate, there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.

So what is this "... and the necessary action taken"?

What action can be taken if the work is PD? Why do you keep clouding the issue and bringing all this crap up?

The OP's concern is that they want to do some work under PD and asked if the neighbour can object. So .... there are no yes, buts, maybes, howevers, might do's, could be this could be thats.

The answer is no-one can object to PD, and if you are in the planning profession and have a different opinion or are advising your clients to the contrary, then you are in the wrong job

 

[DevilDamo]

Look, if someone does work and it is PD, it matters not if anyone complains, or if planners investigate, there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.

Planning could (and have in the past) ask for a CoL to be submitted, so yes they (the planners) can do something about it. If planning want to cause fuss or kick up a stink, they will. That's not rocket science.

 

[^woody^]

Planning could (and have in the past) ask for a CoL to be submitted, so yes they (the planners) can do something about it.

Can they?

Where in the TCPA, or various GPDO's and amendments, or more specifically the GDPO 1995 does it state that this can be done?

You may have been asked/requested, but I don't know of any authority for the planners to actually require a LDC from anyone.

In fact, it is up to the homeowner (or anyone) to make a LDC application (for their own benefit) and not for the planners to require one (in order for the planners to determine lawful development for their own purpose or because of a complaint).
If it is deemed that unauthorised/unlawful development has taken place then planners can either take enforcement action or give the opportunity for a retrospective planning application to be made, not a LDC application

The whole idea of a LDC is to give assurance to the homeowner that the development is lawful, or for a third party to have information as to whether development is unlawful. It is not for the purpose of planners "checking" the development as a result of a complaint.

So in the context of this thread, if the OP's neighbour complains then if the planner decides to investigate there will be only two outcomes

1. The development is found to be PD and no further action can (by law) be taken

or

2.The development is found not to be PD and a full planning application will be required - or enforcement action taken

By all means cite the relevant planning law to contradict this, but that's the situation AFAIK

 

[mointainwalker]

Don't think woody is going to be pressing your "Thank you" button DD .

 

[DevilDamo]

I brought it up as I/we have had to do it... on two previous occasions.

 

[jeds]

Planning could (and have in the past) ask for a CoL to be submitted, so yes they (the planners) can do something about it. If planning want to cause fuss or kick up a stink, they will. That's not rocket science.

Certificates of lawfulness can sometimes be useful where there is a grey area. But those are few and far between now. Submitting a col is always a choice. My advice if asked again would be to say 'no thanks. We don't need one', and see what they do. Nine out of ten you won't hear from them again.

 

[davers79]

Wow thanks everyone for all your input on this, most helpful

 

[stevek54]

Hello.

The foregoing discussion is really interesting and helpful to me, someone who is looking to extend under permitted development rules after a couple of knock backs on previous planning apps for a rear extension.

I am pretty confident that our design complies with all the requirements of a PD for a single storey extension.

Do I still have to put in a planning application or get some other confirmation from the Council or can I just go ahead and start the work?

 

[jeds]

If you are sure it falls within PD then you can get on with it. Be sure it does though, and if any doubt speak to somebody that is used to and understands the rules.

Even if it is PD you still need to make a building regulations application.

 

[DevilDamo]

Do I still have to put in a planning application or get some other confirmation from the Council or can I just go ahead and start the work?

You don't "have to" at all. However, it may save you time and money in dealing with it now than in the future. It's purely your decision.

 

[garyo]

It's a funny old system. A frequently asked question on here is "I'm trying to sell/buy a house, and their/my solicitor is saying that the extension doesn't seem to have planning permission"

Standard replies are "Lack of planning can't be enforced after ~5 years" and "just buy an indemnity policy" but the general pattern is that the solicitors still seems to get their barge pole-out and put the frighteners on your house sale.

At the other end of the time-line there are people on the forums asking questions about their proposed extensions which tend to dance around the grey areas of what is/isn't Permitted Development. PD rights seem to be changed or extended every 5 years or so.

If I was the person sat in the house that was going to be extended, and even I wasn't 100% sure whether it was PD or not, then I'd worry that someone else's solicitor x years from now *definitely* wouldn't have a clue what the rules were at the time, and wouldn't have a set of before/after plans sat on his desk either.

I'll be in this situation 6 months from now, and I suspect the fear of potential ball ache when selling will make me spend the £150 odd on a CoL.

Gary

 

[stevek54]

Thanks, all. I have submitted drawings and a checklist of PD requirements. I will see what the planners say.

 

[cadvis3d]

i think people are getting a bit confused here and things are getting mixed up.

Let me help clear this up....

For a development to be deemed as permitted it needs to be designed within the latest permitted development guidelines. If all the conditions are met then it is allowed, if not, then you have to submit a full planning application.

However in order to confirm the Permitted development legally you have to apply for a certificate of lawfulness. This basically confirms that the proposals do indeed conform with the guidelines. Without this you do not have proof that the development is legal and may find it difficult to sell or re-mortgage your house, without this confirmation.

Neighbors can object to the certificate of lawfulness on the simple ground that they believe it is not lawful, not for any other reason. This is because the permitted development guidelines does not adhere to the usual planning policy, which planners work to for full planning applications. This may sound confusing and a bit daft, but the permitted development guidelines are built on their own criteria and policy and are separate from planning.

Basically a good architect will advise you on the best solution for your development and whether what you require will meet the guidelines for permitted.

hope this clears things up.

Paul

 

[cadvis3d]

It's a funny old system. A frequently asked question on here is "I'm trying to sell/buy a house, and their/my solicitor is saying that the extension doesn't seem to have planning permission"

Standard replies are "Lack of planning can't be enforced after ~5 years" and "just buy an indemnity policy" but the general pattern is that the solicitors still seems to get their barge pole-out and put the frighteners on your house sale.

At the other end of the time-line there are people on the forums asking questions about their proposed extensions which tend to dance around the grey areas of what is/isn't Permitted Development. PD rights seem to be changed or extended every 5 years or so.

If I was the person sat in the house that was going to be extended, and even I wasn't 100% sure whether it was PD or not, then I'd worry that someone else's solicitor x years from now *definitely* wouldn't have a clue what the rules were at the time, and wouldn't have a set of before/after plans sat on his desk either.

I'll be in this situation 6 months from now, and I suspect the fear of potential ball ache when selling will make me spend the £150 odd on a CoL.

Gary

Certificate of lawfulness application is £75 and takes 6-8 weeks for a decision

just thought i would clear that up

paul