Bathroom Extraction Fan

[V1k]

Hi, my extraction fan in the bathroom does not seem to work. It's not isolated using a 2 pole switch - I know this should be the case but I have not gotten around to fitting one just yet.

The positive goes to the positive terminal in the ceiling rose.
The Negative goes to the negative terminal in the ceiling rose.
The switched positive goes to the switched positive terminal in the ceiling rose.

The fan is supposed to come on when the light is switched on but doesn't?

Any ideas?

 

[securespark]

They're around a tenner: have you tried replacing it.

I assume you've already used a two-pole voltage detector to check you have a supply between neutral and each of the lives at the fan terminals.

 

[riveralt]

Hi, my extraction fan in the bathroom does not seem to work. It's not isolated using a 2 pole switch - I know this should be the case but I have not gotten around to fitting one just yet.

The positive goes to the positive terminal in the ceiling rose.
The Negative goes to the negative terminal in the ceiling rose.
The switched positive goes to the switched positive terminal in the ceiling rose.

The fan is supposed to come on when the light is switched on but doesn't?

Any ideas?

STOP - you shouldn't be messing about with this or incidentally your shower - You haven't really got a clue.
You have been told about Building Control but carry on regardless - you really are a danger to yourself.
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=283500

 

[sparkticus]

OK, first please keep in mind that the terms positive and negative are usually applied to Direct Current (DC) circuits.

In an Alternating Current (AC) circuit, each wire (the red/brown and black/blue) alternate between being negative and positive 50 times per second.

The correct terminology is:

Brown/Red = LIVE (or PHASE or LINE)
Blue/Black = NEUTRAL

In fact in mains AC circuits both of the conductors are regarded as "live" conductors but live is well understood and commonly in use for meaning the Brown/Red conductor.

It really seems to me that your wiring is correct and your fan is faulty.

Do you have a method of measuring voltage? A MultiMeter?

You need to check that you have approximately 230 Volts AC at the fan connectors. If you are in any doubt then you really should contact a professional.

 

[V1k]

Hi, my extraction fan in the bathroom does not seem to work. It's not isolated using a 2 pole switch - I know this should be the case but I have not gotten around to fitting one just yet.

The positive goes to the positive terminal in the ceiling rose.
The Negative goes to the negative terminal in the ceiling rose.
The switched positive goes to the switched positive terminal in the ceiling rose.

The fan is supposed to come on when the light is switched on but doesn't?

Any ideas?

STOP - you shouldn't be messing about with this or incidentally your shower - You haven't really got a clue.
You have been told about Building Control but carry on regardless - you really are a danger to yourself.
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=283500[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that, although it's not exactly brain surgery, I've managed to rewire the entire house with relative ease at a fraction of the cost of having it done by a 'qulified electrician' and have had it passed by the council's electrician with no problems at all.

The whole point of these forums is to reinforce what the building controls are and to ask questions which you may be a little unsure about right? And then as the addage goes '2 heads are better than 1' - i.e. to get a different person's perspective of what a problem may be and how to get around it.

They're around a tenner: have you tried replacing it.

I assume you've already used a two-pole voltage detector to check you have a supply between neutral and each of the lives at the fan terminals.

Thanks for that too - Tested with a voltage detector and all was fine, as it was a Sunday I couldn't get another fan but was hoping that that's what it was and nothing else - i.e. that the wiring was correct.

 

[riveralt]

Thanks for that, although it's not exactly brain surgery, I've managed to rewire the entire house with relative ease at a fraction of the cost of having it done by a 'qulified electrician' and have had it passed by the council's electrician with no problems at all.

Blimely thats quick, you only bought it on the 7th June 2011.
If, as you say, you have rewired this house by yourself and had it passed by the Local Authority Building Control then why are you asking such a simple question of this forum?

The whole point of these forums is to reinforce what the building controls are and to ask questions which you may be a little unsure about right? And then as the addage goes '2 heads are better than 1' - i.e. to get a different person's perspective of what a problem may be and how to get around it.

The problem from my perspective is trying to assess your competence to complete the task you have set. Never mind the terminology you use, I understand what you are trying to say, but it doesn't help your cause when you openly admit breaching the regulations ..

It's not isolated using a 2 pole switch - I know this should be the case but I have not gotten around to fitting one just yet.

And then

The positive goes to the positive terminal in the ceiling rose.
The Negative goes to the negative terminal in the ceiling rose.
The switched positive goes to the switched positive terminal in the ceiling rose.
The fan is supposed to come on when the light is switched on but doesn't?
Any ideas?

No mention of cpc.
Based these responses and others you have posted - fitted the LABC approved shower yet? I do not for one minute believe you have rewired this house - which is why I said and still say 'STOP' you do not have the skills to complete this or an other electrical task at the moment.
I will of course withdraw these remarks if you where to post your Electrical Installation Certificate Test results schedule for your house rewire, or even the shower.

 

[sparkticus]

Thanks for that, although it's not exactly brain surgery, I've managed to rewire the entire house with relative ease at a fraction of the cost of having it done by a 'qulified electrician' and have had it passed by the council's electrician with no problems at all.

It is not brain surgery but to rewire a house safely in compliance with wiring regulations does require the designer & installer (often the same person) to fully understand both the regulations and at least some of the underlying scientific principles. I think the terminology that you were using (positive - negative etc) was a concern for some people including myself. Anyone wiring a house should be familiar with the correct terminology not just for the sake of it because using correct terms would demonstrate a level of competence. Also, I think there was concern over you not being able to identify a basic problem such as the fan not operating despite the fact that the wiring was apparently correct and wired by your good self. The concerns are those of safety for yourself and your family.
[/quote]

The whole point of these forums is to reinforce what the building controls are and to ask questions which you may be a little unsure about right? And then as the addage goes '2 heads are better than 1' - i.e. to get a different person's perspective of what a problem may be and how to get around it.

Yes that is also true. Again, the professionals on the forum do want to help but want to be certain of safety first and foremost. All I can say is (and I mean this politely) that you gave the general impression that you were less than confident. People do get seriously injured and even killed working on electrics at home and the best advice for someone who is not confident (or appears not to be confident) is to encourage them away from doing the work themselves. Had you considered writing your post with more thought and consideration for correct (or near correct) terminology then there would have been no concerns.

I note that you re-wired your own home and had the wiring signed off by your LABC. Did you certify the work yourself or did someone else do that for you?


Thank you

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thanks for that, although it's not exactly brain surgery,

No, but it seems to be beyond you.

I've managed to rewire the entire house with relative ease

So you're able to rewire a house, but you're not confident that you can wire a fan correctly?

You've checked, with a 2-pole voltage detector, that you have 230V between neutral and both permanent and switched line, and yet you still aren't sure what the problem is, despite being so competent that you were able to do a complete rewire with relative ease?

was hoping that that's what it was and nothing else - i.e. that the wiring was correct.

So despite being so competent that you were able to do a complete rewire with relative ease, when it comes to wiring up a fan you can only hope that you've got it right?

It's not isolated using a 2 pole switch - I know this should be the case but I have not gotten around to fitting one just yet.

When you have fitted it, please post photos - there's a lot of people here who would be interested to see how it's done.

 

[V1k]

seemed to have touched a few raw nerves out there - I take it it's all the electricians who charge a good 3-5k to rewire a house being told that you don't need to be the brains of britain to rewire a house ?

When you buy a newly packaged item, you don't always expect it to not work. Even though logic points towards that, you would wonder, if it's not your everyday job if you've maybe wired something incorrectly and that's all I asked.

Blimely thats quick, you only bought it on the 7th June 2011.
If, as you say, you have rewired this house by yourself and had it passed by the Local Authority Building Control then why are you asking such a simple question of this forum?

I don't remember saying that I had bought the place on this date? - Blimey, you must have a true gift, ever thought of plodding off to Las Vegas and sharing it with the public ?

Asking such a simple question to get a different view on things - maybe something which I've overseen.... Seen as that's what internet forums are for !

The problem from my perspective is trying to assess your competence to complete the task you have set. Never mind the terminology you use, I understand what you are trying to say, but it doesn't help your cause when you openly admit breaching the regulations ..

It's not isolated using a 2 pole switch - I know this should be the case but I have not gotten around to fitting one just yet.

Ohhhh yes because not putting in a switch will burn the house down right ! Regulations, but As this was a later edition and was not checked by the wonderful electrician who came over to give me a certificate, it doesn't matter ! And there I thought you knew what you were talking about and i didn't !!!! Terminology was used just for the ease of use.

No mention of cpc.
Based these responses and others you have posted - fitted the LABC approved shower yet? I do not for one minute believe you have rewired this house - which is why I said and still say 'STOP' you do not have the skills to complete this or an other electrical task at the moment.
I will of course withdraw these remarks if you where to post your Electrical Installation Certificate Test results schedule for your house rewire, or even the shower

Oh right, I thought you told me to STOP because you were an MC Hammer fan myself, thought the next line would state "Hammer Time"..... Unfortunately not.... Shower all fitted and working perfectly well, no leaks or electricutions - as I said no brain surgery !

And I would publish my certificate to the entire WWW for what? I don't know you or anyone else on this forum, why would I need to prove myself to you or anyone else for that matter? As long as the electrician who came over to check the house was happy with it, that's all that matters as far as I'm concerened.

I note that you re-wired your own home and had the wiring signed off by your LABC. Did you certify the work yourself or did someone else do that for you?

Thank you

Before re-wiring, I let the council know what I intended to do. Carried out the work myself, let the council know and they sent round an electrician. He issued me a certificate for the work carried out.

Thanks for that, although it's not exactly brain surgery,

No, but it seems to be beyond you.

Oh really? and why is that? Because I'm using an internet forum to get a second opinion ???? My god, how could I use the internet, the largest store of information known to any man, woman and civilisation to gather information.... My god, I can really see how silly my actions are!

I've managed to rewire the entire house with relative ease

So you're able to rewire a house, but you're not confident that you can wire a fan correctly?

Errr, noooo..... as I said in the post, I asked if anyone had 'any ideas' of what could be wrong. As far as I know, asking a simple question and having no confidence are 2 completely different things. As I said before, you don't expect a brand new item to be fauly, it does happen, but not always expected and so the second opinion comes in.....

You've checked, with a 2-pole voltage detector, that you have 230V between neutral and both permanent and switched line, and yet you still aren't sure what the problem is, despite being so competent that you were able to do a complete rewire with relative ease?

Unfortunately yes..... But then maybe you're just too clever for me!

was hoping that that's what it was and nothing else - i.e. that the wiring was correct.

So despite being so competent that you were able to do a complete rewire with relative ease, when it comes to wiring up a fan you can only hope that you've got it right?

My mistake, shouldn't be hoping - Sorry !!!!

Not sure why me re-wiring the house has gotten up your nose so much? Is it really because it was pretty simple to do and you're not liking it because you find simple things like answering a simple question so difficult? And I take it you're a proffessional tradesman of some sort?

It's not isolated using a 2 pole switch - I know this should be the case but I have not gotten around to fitting one just yet.

When you have fitted it, please post photos - there's a lot of people here who would be interested to see how it's done.

[/quote]

Why would this matter to you or anyone else anyway? And as I said before, it's an isolation switch, to ISOLATE the product to which it's fitted, how would that make the product safe/unsafe ?

 

[sparkticus]

seemed to have touched a few raw nerves out there - I take it it's all the electricians who charge a good 3-5k to rewire a house being told that you don't need to be the brains of britain to rewire a house ?

OK you really need to tone this down a little. An electrician (a real one) will probably not be the "the brains of Britain" but will be highly qualified and highly experienced. Please have a little respect. What is your profession by the way?

When you buy a newly packaged item, you don't always expect it to not work. Even though logic points towards that, you would wonder, if it's not your everyday job if you've maybe wired something incorrectly and that's all I asked.

Yes but a timer fan is a very simple device. It requires:
1) Neutral
2) Live
3) Switched live

If you managed to wire a house then it is astounding that you can't diagnose the simplest of faults. Of course it is absolutely right to ask questions but again I draw your attention to your own apparent display of lack of experience/competence for the work you are undertaking. This makes people cautious about encouraging you further.

It's not isolated using a 2 pole switch - I know this should be the case but I have not gotten around to fitting one just yet.

Why would this matter to you or anyone else anyway? And as I said before, it's an isolation switch, to ISOLATE the product to which it's fitted, how would that make the product safe/unsafe ?

You appear to totally miss the point. How could it possibly be a two pole isolator when you have three separate live conductors to isolate? Again, you appear to have no command of the terminology and regulations. I struggle to understand how you rewired your house. It would be interesting (as someone else mentioned) for you to post the certification so that we can see the results. You can mask out any personal details and just let us see the schedule of items inspected and the schedule of test results?

 

[V1k]

seemed to have touched a few raw nerves out there - I take it it's all the electricians who charge a good 3-5k to rewire a house being told that you don't need to be the brains of britain to rewire a house ?

OK you really need to tone this down a little. An electrician (a real one) will probably not be the "the brains of Britain" but will be highly qualified and highly experienced. Please have a little respect. What is your profession by the way?

When you buy a newly packaged item, you don't always expect it to not work. Even though logic points towards that, you would wonder, if it's not your everyday job if you've maybe wired something incorrectly and that's all I asked.

Yes but a timer fan is a very simple device. It requires:
1) Neutral
2) Live
3) Switched live

If you managed to wire a house then it is astounding that you can't diagnose the simplest of faults. Of course it is absolutely right to ask questions but again I draw your attention to your own apparent display of lack of experience/competence for the work you are undertaking. This makes people cautious about encouraging you further.

It's not isolated using a 2 pole switch - I know this should be the case but I have not gotten around to fitting one just yet.

Why would this matter to you or anyone else anyway? And as I said before, it's an isolation switch, to ISOLATE the product to which it's fitted, how would that make the product safe/unsafe ?

You appear to totally miss the point. How could it possibly be a two pole isolator when you have three separate live conductors to isolate? Again, you appear to have no command of the terminology and regulations. I struggle to understand how you rewired your house. It would be interesting (as someone else mentioned) for you to post the certification so that we can see the results. You can mask out any personal details and just let us see the schedule of items inspected and the schedule of test results?

You're right, My apologies to the professionals out there, just not to those who think it's okay to sit there looking down at me without knowing anything about me. Those who think it's fine to say things like

Thanks for that, although it's not exactly brain surgery,

No, but it seems to be beyond you.

I mean who are you to judge me or to tell me what's beyond me? I'd be the first to admit that there is a knowledge gap, but that's exactly why I'm on this forum to fill those gaps - not a great advert for this site to talk to people in that way at all.

2 pole switch.... my mistake, it was a typo !

I myself am a programmer, if someone were to ask me about coding on a forum, someone who is new to the field, I know for a fact that they could write out an entire application but have some issues with small pieces of coding - it's deffinatley not something new.

If you ask me, I'd also be the first to admit that programming is no brain surgery either, I meet non-programers who say the same to me and to be honest, I don't mind it because to a certain extent, I know for a fact it is true.

But NEVER do I tell peole that tasks are beyond them or imply that they are stupid in any way.

 

[sparkticus]

I myself am a programmer, if someone were to ask me about coding on a forum, someone who is new to the field, I know for a fact that they could write out an entire application but have some issues with small pieces of coding - it's deffinatley not something new.

Ok so you are a programmer - If I wrote:

"I have just re-written the complete operating system for my PC including completely new BIOS functions but I am having a bit of trouble with an application program that I wrote in BASIC that should display the words "hello world" on the screen. I know the ascii characters are output to the screen but the screen is completely blank. Any help would be much appreciated"

Would you be confused? Would you consider me to be competent?

But NEVER do I tell peole that tasks are beyond them or imply that they are stupid in any way.

I did not tell you that you were stupid or that anything was beyond you.
I implied and still imply that you might reflect upon your post and consider
revising your terminology in an effort to convey your level of competence.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Hi, my extraction fan in the bathroom does not seem to work

Perhaps it's faulty.

I once nearly killed myself because I programmed my pc incorrectly.

 

[V1k]

It's not yourself who I'm talking about. to be brutally honest, you were actually very polite and I apprciaed that, it was more the other comments.

With regards to the programming, I can see where you're coming from and can appreciate what you say. But myself personally, I would simply reply with try xyz rather than imply that you're stupid and therefore could no way have written your own OS.

Sometimes we all have off days or times when we just can't get our heads around something. Generally, a lot of people turn to the internet for answers in these circumstances. And that's all that I was doing.

 

[V1k]

Hi, my extraction fan in the bathroom does not seem to work

Perhaps it's faulty.

I once nearly killed myself because I programmed my pc incorrectly.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but you could actually very easily do just that ! There was a case not too long ago about a programmer who wrote a virus which hit hospital computers - needless to say what could have happened, seen as computers control everything from temperature controls to life support machines !