converting to s plan or y plan advice needed

[keen2learn]

Hi
our current set up is an ideal mexico super 3 boiler, pumped central heating gravity hot water room stat only. As this does not give us any control over our hot water I would like to convert our current set up to either s plan or y plan is there any advantage to one set up or the other for example cost of kit or time to fit etc? how long would it take an average plumber to do the work involved.
also would it be advantageous to fit a magna clean, the system is very dirty (black water comes out when bleeding) should I put in some sludge remover in and drain down and refill before or after having the conversion work done?

Many thanks in advance

Carl

 

[hansthebear]

Depends on the load, y plan for 18kw or less. Magnetic filter and flush will def be a good idea

 

[D_Hailsham]

Depends on the load, y plan for 18kw or less.

Honeywell say 26kW Max for a V4073 Y plan valve. The flow characteristics of a V4043 zone valve are virtually identical to a V4073, so that's not really a deciding factor.

Zone valves (S Plan) are inherently simpler as all you have is a valve with a switch. Mid-position valves (Y Plan) have a more complicated circuitry inside the valve with two micro-switches, resistors and diodes, all of which can go wrong, so fault finding is more time consuming.

I know it doesn't affect you, but the recent alteration to Building Regulations, which require a minimum of two heating zones in most properties, will mean the eventual disappearance of Y Plans.

 

[keen2learn]

Hi

thanks for both your replies how do I work out my kwh output we have 7 rads 6 are single panel 1 is double panel ( lounge) boiler is ideal mexico super 3 RS3/40 if s plan is most simple I assume quicker job less labour to pay and less to go wrong the two main reasons for wanting to do this converion is to save energy as hot water is not needed 24/7 and to cool the house down bathroom radiator is permanantly red hot as is pipework.

also would adding sludge cleaner draining and refilling better before or after upgrade also same question with magnaclean

thanks in advance

 

[hansthebear]

go for y plan, it willl be cheaper

 

[mysteryman]

A Y Plan on a small system such as yours is better, because there is always a circuit open and there is no need for a bypass as long as one of the rads is on lockshield valves.

There is only one valve instead of two, it is slightly easier to plumb, and no more complicated to wire up for those who can read a wiring diagram. The diode and microswitches rarely give trouble - and you would have two microswitches on an S Plan anyway!

 

[keen2learn]

Hi
once again thanks for both your replies.
Mysteryman when you say there will always be one circuit open what exactly does that mean? at the moment the heating is off on wall thermostat but the hot water is constantly on and flowing round upstairs rads all trvs are off bathroom radiator acts I assume as a bypass as no trv and always hot.

 

[mysteryman]

When the heating and hot water are both shut down, the boiler and pump are both switched off [this may be after some pump overrun time to dissipate residual heat]. One of the circuits, water or heating, will always be open for this purpose, but everything will be stopped, either straightaway or after a while. No more heat will be generated.

 

[D_Hailsham]

how do I work out my kwh output we have 7 rads 6 are single panel 1 is double panel ( lounge) boiler is ideal mexico super 3 RS3/40

The RS3/40 boiler has an output of 15kW; so either S or Y plan is suitable.

 

[keen2learn]

I know it doesn't affect you, but the recent alteration to Building Regulations, which require a minimum of two heating zones in most properties, will mean the eventual disappearance of Y Plans.

as I will eventually need to replace the boiler due to age inefficiancy etc would that make a difference to your advice mysteryman.

if im honest when the boiler replacement happens it will be a full system replacement all rads, boiler, full repipe rads re positioned etc although will likely be a couple more years due to funds etc.

 

[monoxide62]

Depends on the load, y plan for 18kw or less.

Honeywell say 26kW Max for a V4073 Y plan valve. The flow characteristics of a V4043 zone valve are virtually identical to a V4073, so that's not really a deciding factor.

.

This will all depend whether the 3 port zone valve is 22mm or 28mm.

 

[monoxide62]

Zone valves (S Plan) are inherently simpler as all you have is a valve with a switch. Mid-position valves (Y Plan) have a more complicated circuitry inside the valve with two micro-switches, resistors and diodes, all of which can go wrong, so fault finding is more time consuming.

This shouldn't be a deciding factor , in the event of a breakdown any decent engineer should be able to diagnose any issues within 15 minutes , system components shouldn't be chosen based on the knowledge of the homeowner/DIYer.

 

[keen2learn]

Hi

again thanks for your replies, with the water being gravity fed would it not be piped in 28mm as standard?

all rad tails are 15mm

pipework from the boiler is bigger than 15mm but not 100% sure if 22mm or 28mm. looking at boiler to left is pump with 2 pipes for flow and return so would assume this is for the rads to the right 2 pipes marked F and R I would assume for hot water can provide photos if it helps

 

[D_Hailsham]

With the water being gravity fed would it not be piped in 28mm as standard?

Ideal specify 28mm for the Gravity HW connections.

Looking at boiler to left is pump with 2 pipes for flow and return so would assume this is for the rads to the right 2 pipes marked F and R I would assume for hot water

Converting a four pipe system to fully piped will involve more work. re-routing the pipes

As you are contemplating a new boiler it might be better to consider an interim solution to provide the required temperature/ time control over your hot water. Honeywell call it the C PLan.

It consists of a motorized valve installed in the return pipe from the HW cylinder to the boiler and a cylinder thermostat.

Whatever solution you adopt, the independence of the heating and hot water times will depend on the type of timer/programmer you have.

 

[keen2learn]

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A few pictures of the current setup[/img]