You can cut it off and use an FCU.
Yes you can. But since its a new kitchen design and the microwave oven is being built in, I would go along a similar route to what you suggested before and leave an unswitched socket behind the oven for the plug and use either a 20amp switch or fcu to the side for isolation purposes.You can cut it off and use an FCU.
I'm a bit confused here. What is 'the third thing' people are talking about? - if just the fan/light, that will always be on when anything else is on - so that's at least two at a time. However, more to the point is the fact that, as I understand it, the whole point of a 'combination oven' is that one can have microwave and conventional ('hot-air') heating working simultaneously.As riveralt said, you can't use all 3 things at once - probably not even 2.Power required 3400 W
Grill power 1500 W
Hot-Air power 1500 W
Kind Regards, John.
AC Voltage 220-240 V / 50 Hz
Power required 3400 W
Grill power 1500 W
Hot-Air power 1500 W
Microwave output power 1000 W
Microwave frequency 2450 MHz
Exterior dimensions (WHD) 595 455 542 mm
Interior dimensions (WHD) 420 210 390 mm
Oven capacity 35 l Weight 38 kg
So it is!Microwave power is the third element.
Agreed.The critical issue is that if the manufacturers provide a plug then you use the plug.
Me, too - particularly since I was specifically looking and thinking about what this 'third thing' was! - as you say, sloppyDear oh dear John, that was rather sloppy of you. I am surprised when the OP quite clearly stated this:-
Indeed - and given the output power of the microwave is given as 1kW that also probably has an input power of the order or 1500W - so roughly the same calculation would apply if the microwave were 'one of the two'. This obviously all implies that the control system is such that one can only have two on at once, which I therefore presume must be the case.Two out of three elements can be used simultaneously, so lets say grill+convector =3kW ...then add a bit .... give a max potential load of 3.4kW.
I can only speak of the types i have seen (including my own ) but they do all seem to limit to 2 of 3 elements. OOI, they are handy when Mrs. Faradayski has omitted to masterchef me something up for dinner and i am forced to go from frozen to cooked in 10 minutes whilst avoiding e-coli or similar.Me, too - particularly since I was specifically looking and thinking about what this 'third thing' was! - as you say, sloppyDear oh dear John, that was rather sloppy of you. I am surprised when the OP quite clearly stated this:-
Indeed - and given the output power of the microwave is given as 1kW that also probably has an input power of the order or 1500W - so roughly the same calculation would apply if the microwave were 'one of the two'. This obviously all implies that the control system is such that one can only have two on at once, which I therefore presume must be the case.Two out of three elements can be used simultaneously, so lets say grill+convector =3kW ...then add a bit .... give a max potential load of 3.4kW.
As for diversity, I don't think one can reasonably apply that to the microwave bit (since it will be possible to instruct it to have a 100% duty cycle), but one can for the grill/convection - so, in practice, I agree that any two will have a 'diversified load' of <13A - which is obvioulsy what the manufacturer believes.
Kind Regards, John.
Yep, given that you are presumably/hopefully not the only person who reads my posts, I made that point for clarity - to explain why I was agreeing with you.erm, glad you pointed that out with such clarity, which i presume was just incase you thought i wasn't already aware of such ponderings.
If you're going to retain the plug (with its fuse), then it makes no real sense to also have an FCU. Just a DP-switched socket (some have DP switches these days) may well satisfy all the requirements - or, if you'd prefer (for switch accessibility), an unswitched socket and a separate 20A DP switch.Chances are its going to come with a 13a plug (which if it does, I will not remove just in case it invalidates the warranty). It will need to go on its own circuit (min 16a) and wired via either an accessible FCU or 20DP sw which will feed a unswitched socket.
I think the MIs tell you to isolate it when cleaning it. Bit tricky if all you have is a socket inside the unit housing it.If you're going to retain the plug (with its fuse), then it makes no real sense to also have an FCU. Just a DP-switched socket (some have DP switches these days) may well satisfy all the requirements
True - hence the next bit of what I wrote, which you chose not to quote, namely:I think the MIs tell you to isolate it when cleaning it. Bit tricky if all you have is a socket inside the unit housing it.
...or, if you'd prefer (for switch accessibility), an unswitched socket and a separate 20A DP switch.
Indeed, but I guess this comes down to a decision as to what constitutes 'concealed'. The regs have never been explicit about this, so there are varying opinions. A socket underneath floorboards would presumably be regarded as being as inaccessible as a non-MF JB in the same place, and hence in violation of the regs. Whether or not a socket, or JB, behind an appliance which could theoretically be pulled out should be regarded as 'accessible' or 'concealed' is anyone's guess!Which raises a more general issue. People are always going on in almost Batemanesque ways about concealed junction boxes, but sockets and flex outlets have screwed joints too....
OK - since this will clearly make you feel much better:True - hence the next bit of what I wrote, which you chose not to quote, namely:I think the MIs tell you to isolate it when cleaning it. Bit tricky if all you have is a socket inside the unit housing it.
...or, if you'd prefer (for switch accessibility), an unswitched socket and a separate 20A DP switch.
I think the MIs tell you to isolate it when cleaning it. Bit tricky if all you have is a socket inside the unit housing it, therefore preferences are irrelevant - there is no choice.If you're going to retain the plug (with its fuse), then it makes no real sense to also have an FCU. Just a DP-switched socket (some have DP switches these days) may well satisfy all the requirements - or, if you'd prefer (for switch accessibility), an unswitched socket and a separate 20A DP switch.
Maybe the regs haven't but dictionaries have.Indeed, but I guess this comes down to a decision as to what constitutes 'concealed'. The regs have never been explicit about this, so there are varying opinions.
I don't need to guess.Whether or not a socket, or JB, behind an appliance which could theoretically be pulled out should be regarded as 'accessible' or 'concealed' is anyone's guess!
Fair enough - but I still think opinions will varying about what constitutes accessible. In any event...I know that this oven weights 38kg.
I know that an accessory with a screwed joint behind the oven is not accessible.
As to the positioning of said plug/fcu, i would rather see that fitted in a place (usually an adjacent cupboard) so that it can easily be disconnected, for whatever reason, without first having to remove the appliance from its housing as this may prove to be a PITA
Even without being a practising electrician who has ever carried out an EICR, I agree with you totally, would never do that myself and have often cursed when I have encountered such a situation - although I obviously don't undertake formal EICRs, I have been known to work on electrical installations, and some of us non-electricians do undertake 'periodic I&T' for our own purposes, you know-I would always like to be able to isolate an appliance easily.
-If you were a practising electrician who has ever carried out an EICR, you would consider the person who installed a socket behind a 38Kg appliance which has then been securely fastened into a kitchen carcass to be a total winker of the highest order.
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