Any help welcome!!

[dodgydigit]

Hi, first time poster after some advice, please take it easy on me!

Right the situation is I live in a block of apartments with a communal boiler that comes on from 6.00am to 11.30pm everyday, in each apartment this is used to heat the radiators and hotwater. It’s an old system and the controls for the heating and hotwater no longer work in my flat leaving the radiators on all day, and very hot water. After searching on the internet it would seem my flat would be suited to a “s-plan”. The plumbing is straight forward enough but I’ve a few questions about the wiring, I would be grateful if any one has any advice.

Firstly, I don’t see the point in paying out for a programmable room thermostat, and would prefer the cheaper (money is tight) simple wireless room thermostat, seeing as the boiler is already on a timer and I pay a service charge which includes unlimited heating. If I do this am I right in connecting the live in (from a 3 amp plug) straight to the greys on the motorised valves? And the neutrals and earths all tighter in the wiring centre? As well as connecting the L,N&E in the wireless receiver straight in?

If so that leaves me with 2 wires from the heating motorised valves (Brown & Orange) am I right assuming that the orange is of no further use and can be connected into a spare terminal in the wiring centre? And that I should connect the Brown to the switch out from the wireless receiver (after connecting the wireless receiver into a permant live on the common)?

If I am right, then is it the same with the hotwater valve and the orange again has no further use, and that there should be a permenant live to the cylinder thermostat and the switch out that breaks on tempreture rise is connected to the Brown on the motorised valve?

I hope you’ve got your way through this long winded post and I’ve tried to be clear as I can, but would really appreciate any input and thoughts. Thanks again.

 

[Chri5]

What are you trying to do?

Since the building has a system, you can't just do your own thing with the whole building system.

Why not leave the hw alone, and update your rads and fit TRV's.

If you want to be Mr. Gadgit you could get something like Honeywell Hometronic.

Nb Why post this in electrics, maybe the plumbing section would have be better?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I didn't read beyond the first paragraph - my input and thoughts are that as it's a shared system you must not fiddle with it.

You might be able to fit TRVs, but draining the system will be a challenge.

Raise the fault with the people who manage the building.

[EDIT]
Too slow...

[/EDIT]

 

[dodgydigit]

What are you trying to do?

Since the building has a system, you can't just do your own thing with the whole building system.

Why not leave the hw alone, and update your rads and fit TRV's.

If you want to be Mr. Gadgit you could get something like Honeywell Hometronic.

Nb Why post this in electrics, maybe the plumbing section would have be better?

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first post.

The communal boiler supplies each property with hot water, it comes in each flat and anything after the isolation valves are the home owners responsibility.ie radiators controls, hot water cylinder etcetc.
The control system for the heating and hot water are 40 years old. The hot water used to have a trv capillary stat attached to the cylinder but this has continually provided ineffective as has the room stat that is also based on a trv with a capillary (wonderfully position in the bathroom on the outside of the cylinder cupboard). Both have failed twice in the past and are expensive to renew. Hence I was looking for a more modern and efficient control system.

Like I said previously the communal boiler has it own set times 365 days of the year, so no need for a timer in my property. Just a simple room stat and a cylinder stat.

 

[dodgydigit]

I didn't read beyond the first paragraph - my input and thoughts are that as it's a shared system you must not fiddle with it.

You might be able to fit TRVs, but draining the system will be a challenge.

Raise the fault with the people who manage the building.

[EDIT]
Too slow...

[/EDIT]

Should have said earlier that anything after the flow and return isolation valves that enter each property are our concern and nothing to do with the building services company. Their responsibility is to make sure the boiler works and the communal pipe work are ok.

Trvs are out of the question for various reasons, and I would still have the same hot water problems.

 

[dodgydigit]

Surprised this has been moved to the plumbers forum. Are the mods admitting this question about wiring an S plan is above electricians?

Might be my fault and should have just asked the experts in the beginning

 

[Boilerman2]

Movong your post to the Plumbing/Central Heating forum was absolutely the right thing to do as heating controls have to be taylored to the Hydronic arrangements and heating wiring is beyond some electricians!! (no offence intended to sparks that do understand controls)

If there are isolation valves on the Heating mains entering your property and you are responsible for the upkeep of all pipe work rads cylinders and controls downstream of these valves then you are free to isolate and drain your system, it seems that a cylinder stat, RF Roomstat and 2 two port valves would be order of the day, you will only need the Brown /Blue/Earth connections on the motorised valves, you should cut off thew White/Grey/Orange (these are a volt free switch used for starting local pump & Boiler - which you don't have) good luck with the project oh and don't worry about using a corrossion inhibitor, the central system should be recieving regular checks for inhibitor and you would have to add a huge amount to make any diffrence on a system of that scale.

 

[Whitespirit66]

I have modified an S-plan wiring diagram to give you an idea of what is required. As boilerman has said you don't use the grey and orange wires on the 2-port valves, as you have don't need to control a boiler or pump.

This diagram uses a programmer as well as wired cylinder and room stats. If you want a cheap, reliable set-up, and you can run wires from your wiring centre to these stats, this would be a good option. All the components should be available cheaply on Ebay if you aren't in a big hurry. If you want a wireless room stat, it should be easy to substitute for the wired version.

Untitled

• Whitespirit66
• 10 Jul 2012
• 1

 

[dodgydigit]

Movong your post to the Plumbing/Central Heating forum was absolutely the right thing to do as heating controls have to be taylored to the Hydronic arrangements and heating wiring is beyond some electricians!! (no offence intended to sparks that do understand controls)

If there are isolation valves on the Heating mains entering your property and you are responsible for the upkeep of all pipe work rads cylinders and controls downstream of these valves then you are free to isolate and drain your system, it seems that a cylinder stat, RF Roomstat and 2 two port valves would be order of the day, you will only need the Brown /Blue/Earth connections on the motorised valves, you should cut off thew White/Grey/Orange (these are a volt free switch used for starting local pump & Boiler - which you don't have) good luck with the project oh and don't worry about using a corrossion inhibitor, the central system should be recieving regular checks for inhibitor and you would have to add a huge amount to make any diffrence on a system of that scale.

Thanks Boilerman, at least you could understand my post!

It now makes more sense that the motorised value doesnt need a permanent live, because it doesn't motor over to the orange on demand and give a live to the boiler/pump??? And the switching is only done through the room or cylinder stats. If I understand right?

 

[dodgydigit]

I have modified an S-plan wiring diagram to give you an idea of what is required. As boilerman has said you don't use the grey and orange wires on the 2-port valves, as you have don't need to control a boiler or pump.

This diagram uses a programmer as well as wired cylinder and room stats. If you want a cheap, reliable set-up, and you can run wires from your wiring centre to these stats, this would be a good option. All the components should be available cheaply on Ebay if you aren't in a big hurry. If you want a wireless room stat, it should be easy to substitute for the wired version.

Untitled

• Whitespirit66
• 10 Jul 2012
• 1

Thanks W.s66, glad you got the picture.

That's the sort of diagram I googled. I'm looking to get all Danfoss stuff, valves, cylinder stat and wireless room stat from the bay!

Much appreciated, just when I wrote this I was looking at a diagram on one page and typing on another and couldn't see if I was going wrong. Glad I didn't connect the greys together, but I suppose they would have gone nowhere anyway.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Whitespirit66]

That's the sort of diagram I googled. I'm looking to get all Danfoss stuff, valves, cylinder stat and wireless room stat from the bay!

Glad I didn't connect the greys together, but I suppose they would have gone nowhere anyway.

Yes, Danfoss will be fine.

Just leave the grey and orange wires on the valve disconnected.

If you don't want a programmer, you could use a double switch instead to save money. One to control ch, other for hw. One switch between live and ch on, and one between live and hw on. The neutral to the programmer wouldn't be needed.

 

[Boilerman2]

And that is why the Mods moved you post to the Fabulous Plumbing & Heating Forum