moving a boiler.... but not far! cost?

[measureitonce]

Hi,

we have a Grant Euroflame 50/70 installed in our house. I'm not sure how old it is, but must be atleast 5 years as it was here when we moved in. It is currently installed sideways against a wall with the flue venting through the side panel hrizontally out through the cavity wall.

Due to the installation of a door in place of a current window, the flue is exactly 500mm from the door opening (regs state 600mm) which I'm not so bothered about as the door is hardly used when the boiler is likely to be on but TBH we don't want the boiler just inside the door. We therefore want to reposition the boiler within a few feet of current position. and change the flue position

Are there any Grant experts in the house that could tell me.....

If this boiler is compatible with the Grant ez-fit flue systems? (the current flue is rectangular where it exits the boiler, as is the stainless rectangular vent on the outside)

Are there any requirements regarding clearance of the boiler from a wall, either rear or side? ie could it be put right into a corner of room against the walls. The flue exit would probably be from the top and routed to a suitable position once moved.

If run internally, can flue be boxed in? any special material requirements?

Are there any regulatory requirements on access etc for servicing of the boiler? (ie access through front and top panels) or is it just a 'sensible' access

Does the boiler require any ventilation? ie can the boiler be boxed in, obviously allowing service access by mean of removable panels or similar.

Ideally the boiler will be located in a small toilet/cloakroom. Aside from the electrical zones for the spur switch regarding distance from water etc, does the boiler itself have any requirements?

And finally, one of the positions we have in mind would overlap where a soil pipe exits through a concrete floor. To avoid having to move the soil pipe Are there any rules/regs/recommendations regarding raising the boiler approx 6inches from the floor level some how (bricks/blocks?) to allow room for a soil pipe elbow? or would this be a none starter.

Please note, I don't plan to do any of this myself, but want a good idea of what can and cant be done before I get quotes for having it done.
many thanks

 

[Danoil]

Hi, This model is quite old now and therefore I doubt you would get any flue to fit it, the ez fit flues are for the condensing boilers and are not compatible with yours.

It doesn't matter if the distance to the door bothers you or not or if you use the door when its running, it is a minimum distance for a reason!

To answer most of your question in one, the best bet for you is to replace the boiler with a new one (personally I would suggest a Grant again as their Vortex range are very good but this is obviously not my decision to be making).

Also - im not sure if any relocations of existing boilers may be classed as a new installation and will therefore need to be a condensating type anyway, but Im sure someone on here will be able to confirm this or correct me if i am wrong.

Any boiler located in a bathroom/ cloak room etc will have be be in a compartment with ventilation to outside.

As for servicing distances etc, please allow PLENTY of room around it as although manufacturers will quote something like 18" (rediculous) the actual room needed is considerably more. Many installers fit them in silly places knowing they wont be back to work on them which means muggins here struggles year in year out! (your obviously aware of this else you wouldnt be asking!)

The best advice you can get is from a good independant registered installer as they will be able to talk through your options on site to get a better understanding of your needs and show you what can and cant be done.

 

[dcawkwell]

I would get a new boiler and get and external boiler therefore it won't be in
the house at all. Much better keeping the noise and smell outside.

Otherwise the boilers not for moving. for the next 20 years.

 

[Boilerman2]

Dan is not quite right with his advice, the EZ flue system IS suitable for Non-Condensing boilers as well as the Condsensing types HOWEVER as yours has the older rectangular flue the newer round flues will not fit your boiler.

If you read the boiler serial No you will see the production date.

Production line day month year sequence no
L3 12 08 04 33 (this one was made 12/08/2004)

E/F is an excellent boiler, however if you box it in remember thop and front access for servicing and top and bottom ventilation required to keep the boiler cool combustion air is taken from outside via the flue

 

[measureitonce]

THank fro the input guys.

The serial number puts it as a 2002 model. I'll speak to grant re the flue compatibility.

Moving the boiler 100mm will not magically deter any gases coming in the door. So on that basis alone I would leave it exactly where it is and ignore the regs. But I don't really want the boiler there, plus would prefer to move the flue up above eye level and increase distance to doorway to a more effective distance.

The boiler is currently fitted sideways on, flue through side panel, with 100mm or so gap between boiler and wall. If I were moving it I would want it rotated so as the front was facing outward.
Is any gap between the rear of the boiler and the wall required?
Other than pipe fitting down one side, is an clearance required down teh otherside of the boiler? ie can if be shoved right in a corner to save floor space?

I really dont want to have to replace the boiler unneccesarily. It works perfectly, is well maintained, and from what I can gather not far behind modern models in terms of efficiency. But if I have to go this route, I would look at a wall hung unit in the cloakroom which would also ease the floor space issue.

 

[measureitonce]

Well I've confirmed with Grant that the boiler is compatible with the white system flue kits they do. (note for anyone interested - Some minor technical adjustment would be required if I was exiting horizontally, but I intend it to exit vertically)

There is a convenient double air brick that will save having to core drill (and would have to be closed anyway), but this will put me too close to the guttering down pipe. I know you can get heat sheilds, but they all seem to be for the valley gutter under the roof. Does anyone know of a suitable sheild for the downpipe that won't look too obstrusive?

Had a provisional price from a "recommended" grant experienced plumber over the phone - reckoned £900+!! And that didn't include the flue at around £350. I did laugh, and suggested he came and looked at it to give a fixed reasonable price, rather than guestimating and trying his luck! Also pointing out that there was no more than 12ft of 22mm plumbing, 2ft of oil feed, 6ft of flex, an oil shut of valve, and a supplied flue to fit through an existing hole requiring a little mortor to tidy. If it take more than half a day I'd be surprised!

 

[Boilerman2]

If it is that easy, why not have a go yourself??? (by the way don't forget a new remote acting fire valve!)

 

[measureitonce]

I'm genuinely grateful for all the assistance I'm getting from thsi forum in recent weeks, but I'm not sure if that was written with a degree of sarcasm or not Are you seriously suggesting its feasible that I should , or hinting I should stop whining about the potential cost of paying someone?

I'll turn my hand to anything, but it's one of those job's I would normally prefer to see done by a pro, by there is no way on earth it would take a pro the amount of time it would need to justify £900+ at a reasonable hourly rate, even allowing a bit for fire valve, copper etc etc. I guess on that front I should wait for a confirmed cost.

I would gladly have a go myself if its feasible. As long as everything I did were deemed proper I would be happy to.

Does a balance flue require any "balancing" or is it just a phrase? ie will the flue extension require some calibration within the burner? Its probably due a service, so could be done with that before it was turned on.

I will almost certainly be removing the boiler myself to allow me to move the wall to make space for instllation on the other side of the wall. Its looking more and more tempting to just get on with it... but don't want to come unstuck and be without a boiler for weeks!

 

[measureitonce]

Here's what I need to do or have done......

Internal image showing boiler in current location.

Option1, rotate boiler 90 degrees, put right back to wall, and as close to side wall as poss. fit vertical flue kit and take through cloakroom wall to air brick (white vent just in view in pic)
Pos - wall can stay in situ
Neg - boiler remains in entrace hall by front door

Option2, remove cloakroom wall, rotated boiler 90 degrees, and move across as much as needed, but as little as posible. Partition wall will be built approx where the boiler switch is currently. Flow and return (boxed in at ceiling level) cut back and extend to suit new location.
Pos - boiler is now in the cloakroom
Neg - wall needs moving

In both cases, the amount of plumbing is about the same. In both cases the pokey cloakroom remains pokey, no floor space would be gained if boiler were placed in there.

Untitled

• measureitonce
• 30 Nov 2012
• 1

External, current flue only 500mm from door opening. Propose moving it up to the air brick. Heat sheid needed on gutter down pipe. Oil feed pipe (white pipe at bottom of pic) will need shortening, putting through wall and reconnecting.

Untitled

• measureitonce
• 30 Nov 2012
• 1

 

[measureitonce]

What sort of costs should i expect for the plumbing/comissioning work? I would do any building/demolition

Flue - £350 approx
pipework, fittings, fire valve, stop valve £100 approx
Labour??

 

[sherbert]

What sort of costs should i expect for the plumbing/comissioning work? I would do any building/demolition

Flue - £350 approx
pipework, fittings, fire valve, stop valve £100 approx
Labour??

Labour??

Well as you feel its half a day tops

£150.00 .............. Let us know who does it in half a day, would love to meet them!!

 

[ljrgas]

to be honest
for me moving a boiler is installing a boiler so i would be pricing the same as installing a new one.
you still have to move pipe work
re core for the flue
re commission ect ect.

if you ask my opinon i would buy a new boiler. time you have spent buying a new flue ect your probs not far off from buying a new boiler.

 

[Boilerman2]

The problem with a 1/2 day job is what do you do with the rest of the day??
you can't really book anything else in in case the 1/2 day job becomes longer as they have the habit of doing!! - so you spend the afternoon doing paperwork in the office - but that don't bring home the Bacon!!

 

[measureitonce]

Nothing wrong with the boiler so why spend £1000+ for the sake Of it?
If there was a need to replace it in the near future it would be with a grant vortex ( exactly the same dimensions) so location and flue could all be reused. If it was a few years down the line and model etc had changed, then I'd have had my money's worth out of doin what I propose - neither option swinging me towards a new boiler now! Added to which, everyone I've spoken to says keeping this one running at the cost of a little extra oil use, I'll save in the long run on servicing a replacement condensing unit.

No need to core as would use existing double air brick hole and refil as needed. Or I would core it myself and close the air brick.

Basically if im I'm paying an oftec plumber I want to pay for oftec plumber skills, not for drilling a hole that a monkey like me can do with my own time and tools.

But for the sake of argument how much would I expect to be charged for installing/commissioning a new boiler? Excl all parts. Excl putting holes in the wall.

 

[Tibbot]

how much would I expect to be charged for installing/commissioning a new boiler?

How do you expect anyone to be able to guess what you 'expect' to be charged. Surely only you know what you 'expect'. Chances are you'll struggle to find someone to take it on. Best bet is to DIY the whole job. It can't be notified to LABC as a new install anyway so installers with OFTEC can't fulfill that obligation.