Racist suicide Islamic 'snackbar' attacks have started in UK

[ellal]

I would suggest a test of a persons family alleigence is actually whether or not the offspring would consider joining either the Armed Forces , Police or Fire Brigade.

Armed forces - become 'cannon fodder'...
Police - become a political enforcer/tax raiser...
Fire Brigade - an honourable profession, currently being decimated...

So you tell me why an 'allegiance' should be tested in such a way!

However thats because I dont see violence as an answer.....

I even joined the British Army.

That's an oxymoron if ever I saw one!

 

[festive]

I would suggest a test of a persons family alleigence is actually whether or not the offspring would consider joining either the Armed Forces , Police or Fire Brigade.

Armed forces - become 'cannon fodder'...
Police - become a political enforcer/tax raiser...
Fire Brigade - an honourable profession, currently being decimated...

So you tell me why an 'allegiance' should be tested in such a way!

However thats because I dont see violence as an answer.....

I even joined the British Army.

That's an oxymoron if ever I saw one!

You obviously have a better idea?

 

[ellal]

You obviously have a better idea?

yeah...

Stop swallowing the political rhetoric and address the real issues...

And to those who wish to blame Islam for all our ills...

I've yet to hear a yes or no the answer from the usual suspects to the following question (often asked) ...

Were there any Islamic terrorist attacks in the UK prior to the Iraq war?

Seems simple doesn't it, but yet it appears the correlation is too difficult for many to contemplate..

 

[mdf290]

I joined a different Army to the one we have today.

When I was born it was only 15 years after the end of the Second World war so I was brought up as a believer of ones Army as a protector of your realm from outside aggressors. Much of my army time was spent looking accross to Russia as the potential aggressor during the cold war. I liked the fit of the Army as a tool to defend a nation against aggressors.
Everything changed with Blair who decided instead to use our Armed Forces as arbitary tools to political ends and not sincere defenders of the realm. He knew that we had to be seen as defenders who were passive and that is why the whole WMD smokescreen came from.
Since Blair our Armies are pitched in with the Yanks who have always been trigger happy shoot first ask questions second soldiers .
Never before has the term 'Lions led by Donkeys' been more relevant since the first world war.
I support the armed forces 100% and the soldiers on the ground have my 100% support in very very difficult times. I do not blame individual soldiers for the uses the Army is put to. They are in the Army for many reasons , schooling , home environment , a belief in your Country.
For that they should always be applauded.

I detest the politicians who misuse the forces for their own agendas.

 

[ellal]

I joined a different Army to the one we have today.

When I was born it was only 15 years after the end of the Second World war so I was brought up as a believer of ones Army as a protector of your realm from outside aggressors. Much of my army time was spent looking accross to Russia as the potential aggressor during the cold war. I liked the fit of the Army as a tool to defend a nation against aggressors.
Everything changed with Blair who decided instead to use our Armed Forces as arbitary tools to political ends and not sincere defenders of the realm. He knew that we had to be seen as defenders who were passive and that is why the whole WMD smokescreen came from.
Since Blair our Armies are pitched in with the Yanks who have always been trigger happy shoot first ask questions second soldiers .
Never before has the term 'Lions led by Donkeys' been more relevant since the first world war.
I support the armed forces 100% and the soldiers on the ground have my 100% support in very very difficult times. I do not blame individual soldiers for the uses the Army is put to. They are in the Army for many reasons , schooling , home environment , a belief in your Country.
For that they should always be applauded.

I detest the politicians who misuse the forces for their own agendas.

After 6 pages of this topic we are, by and large, in agreement (I'd go back to Thatcher as using the army as a 'tool', but that's a minor quibble!)

It's a pity that the fanatics don't understand how such an agreement can be brought about by dialogue!

 

[mdf290]

Were there any Islamic terrorist attacks in the UK prior to the Iraq war?

Seems simple doesn't it, but yet it appears the correlation is too difficult for many to contemplate..

You have a very simplistic view of the Islamic problem.
You cannot just lump all Muslims under one Islam banner.

The problem with Islam is just the same as Christianity with Catholics and Protestants.
They are not the same.

You have Sunni and Shia wahabis and Alawite . . all Islam but all politically opposed.

For every Radical Islamist who hates us there will be many more moderate Islamists from the opposing faction who see a different side.

The Syria situation is because the ruling party of Assad is Alawite which is a Shia faction. The majority of Syrians are Wahabi a Sunni faction. The FSA and everyone else jumping the bandwaggon see this as an opportunity for the Sunni side to overthrow the Shia side.

This is a tragedy because in reality the Sunni's were happy to live in a secular environment ruled by Assad. Sure there was a class division between how the best jobs and prospects were for Alawites but this didn't upset the wahabis because they were happy to live in the more stable environment.
Now they will end up with a leap back 1000 years to an Islamic Sharia law where bombs and bullets will be a continual background. There wont be any American Aid to rebuild the country or its infrastructure once Syria is destroyed and the FSA factions of idealistic mercenaries will just dissapear once the fighting is over. How will bullets feed the children when its all over and Assad has gone?
Personally I hope Assad clings on despite his links to Russia and Iran.

Blood was spilled on the streets of London a couple of weeks ago when Shia Muslims confronted a Sunni Demonstration. The Shias were attacked.

We are in a no win situation with Islam because whichever side benefits from our involvement the other side will not.
The Sunnis however are the hardline group who want to stop women getting education and enforce Sharia Law.

The trouble is like the Scicilian Mafia once you are in you only ever leave in concrete boots. Its a rule by fear.

 

[ellal]

Were there any Islamic terrorist attacks in the UK prior to the Iraq war?

Seems simple doesn't it, but yet it appears the correlation is too difficult for many to contemplate..

You have a very simplistic view of the Islamic problem.
You cannot just lump all Muslims under one Islam banner.

I've done exactly the opposite and been attacked for pointing out that not every muslim is a terrorist/fanatic/threat...

But yet again a simple question will not be answered...

So were there any Islamic terrorist attacks in the UK prior to the Iraq war?

 

[RigidRaider]

This is interesting: one of the men has been named as Michael Adebolajo. Michael is a Christian name and Adebolajo is Yoruba, from western Nigeria. Most Yorubas are Christians.

 

[mdf290]

This is interesting: one of the men has been named as Michael Adebolajo. Michael is a Christian name and Adebolajo is Yoruba, from western Nigeria. Most Yorubas are Christians.

He has probably been converted in some radicalised Mosque.

 

[mdf290]

But yet again a simple question will not be answered...

So were there any Islamic terrorist attacks in the UK prior to the Iraq war?

The attacks would come whether we had gone to Iraq or not. Iraq just accelerated them.
There isn't an infrastructure of a master plan , just a load of hate preachers with willing volunteers believing the hype. Islamic attacks on the west have been happening since Lockerbie not Iraq.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings

 

[JBR]

However thats because I dont see violence as an answer.....

I even joined the British Army.

That's an oxymoron if ever I saw one!

Don't be ridiculous. If it weren't for our armed forces, you would not be posting here.

 

[JBR]

Are you going to find some nice people to sort out the f...ing dangerous and predictable mess that The UK now finds itself in? Are nice, Guardian- reading, tree-hugging, diversified types going to stop any more white girls being systematically groomed by gangs of muslim paedos, and BRITISH/ENGLISH/SCOTTISH/WELSH people being hacked to death on a sunny afternoon on our streets? Will they stop poor unsuspecting commuters being liquidised on the bus or tube?

These nice people are the stupid ones who couldn't see this coming, talk boll0x about every colour/creed being the same and now leave this country in a very dangerous and exposed situation. I don't recognise this country as being the same one of my childhood, not too long ago in the 70s.

So, go and find some 'nice' people to deal with these pathalogically homicidal savages. Good luck. And, if you're hoping for a 'nice' political' debate around a table - forget it. It's the politicians of recent years who are ultimately responsible for this sorry state of affairs. Pity our children.

You've hit the nail on the head there. That's exactly why this country is in the mess it's in now - naive do-gooders.

I'm 60 years old and, in that time, I have seen this country go down the drain in many ways. I'd like to think that it is not too late to turn it around but, sadly, there does not seem to be the political will or sufficient drive from the general public to do so. I'm glad I don't have any children.

 

[RigidRaider]

A polite question to the poster above: would you vote for Nigel Farage and UKIP?

A general observation on religious hatred: let's not forget that this is all about whose imagined best friend is better that who else's imagined best friend.

 

[kingandy2nd]

And to those who wish to blame Islam for all our ills...

This is part of the problem - some muslims adopt the attitude you just have there "it's us (Islam) against the world and everyone is against us"

Quite frankly most of the western world don't give two hoots about ANY religion anymore - whether it me the religion of their parents/grandparents or anyone else's religion.

Iraq, Afganistan, etc are not wars against religion.

Were there any Islamic terrorist attacks in the UK prior to the Iraq war?

Ever heard of the Iranian Embassy Seige or Pan Am 103 (Lockerbie)?

 

[Big Tone]

I'm 60 years old and, in that time, I have seen this country go down the drain in many ways. I'd like to think that it is not too late to turn it around but, sadly, there does not seem to be the political will or sufficient drive from the general public to do so. I'm glad I don't have any children.

I’m not far behind you, at 54, and have also witnessed this country go down the pan big time! When asked why I have lost faith in this country the once, I said we have lost our identity and any vestige of patriotism. Here’s an example of what I think and have said before as an example of what I mean.

I cannot sing, in fact I’m bloody terrible! But if I got up on a soap box in New York and tried my rendition of The Star Spangled Banner I guarantee people would stop and clap for my efforts and patriotism. Contrast this with if I did that over here in London or Birmingham and I’d probably get eggs thrown at me and told to shut the F up! (Or worse).

I have one daughter and five grandchildren, and I would encourage them to get the hell out of this country ASAP.