Is this a conservatory or extension?

[Sooboo]

I live in a small terraced house which has an 'L' shaped back patio. I would like to build onto the patio leaving the 'side' alone. I would come out of the existing back door and straight into the new build then access the garden by bi fold doors. The build will extend 3m from the house and 4m across. I want a glass conservatory style roof which will have 4 hips in it. But instead of normal conservatory style - small brick wall with glass windows on top - I want to build brick walls either side with small windows in the top. I think the measurement of the walls will be 2m high (6ft) plus 30cm (1ft) for windows. The 4m width will take me almost up to the existing boundary on either side, both of which are walls at present and not fence. I really don't see the point in having two conventional conservatory walls and looking out either side on to the boundary walls.
Question is: extension or conservatory, and will this need building regs. What would the answer be if I maybe did one wall conventional conservatory and the other brick?
I would appreciate any help with this confusing project.
Thanks

 

[tony1851]

It will depend on the separation - if any - between the house and the new-build.
If it is approached through external grade doors - conservatory.
If it is approached through a permanent opening - extension.

 

[luisdesign]

You should be aware that the "classification" of the addition will not change whether or not it needs planning consent. Only building regulations differentiates. You will want to check that your house has permitted development rights and that your ideas can be built within the pd restrictions.

 

[Sooboo]

it will connect through a 'normal' grade door being the existing one from the kitchen. I thought maybe the amount of brick v glass would be an issue in determining conservatory or extension.

 

[luisdesign]

Yes and no.

To be considered a convservatory in building control terms it is not normally allowed to be part of the thermal envelope.

It is worth noting that modern conservatories (not the cheap ones window companies will try selling you) can be designed to standards good enough to meet current building control thermal standards... At a cost of course. In those cases though, because they are part of the thermal element they become subject to building regs.

There are some other circumstances where a conservatory will be subject to building regsto.

 

[tony1851]

Yes and no.

Why 'yes and no'?

If he gains access through the existing (external grade?) kitchen door, then it's thermally separated and surely it's a conservatory?

 

[luisdesign]

Because the amount of glass is not always the determining factor on whether it is a conservatory... In answer to the op question...

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

This was discussed in a thread here: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=278544&start=0

Within that thread a conclusion was reached and it is as follows:

It is all taken care of within Part L1B Existing Dwellings, no need of any special notes or other LABC blurb. http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1B_2010.pdf

If the conservatory complies with 3.15 (and 3.16) it will be exempt from the regs no matter how much or little of its roof or walls are glazed. Building such a conservatory is not notifiable.

If it does not comply with 3.15 it must comply with 4.8, there is no limit on how much or little of its roof or walls are glazed. Whilst it must comply with the regulations stipulated within 4.8 building such a conservatory is not notifiable.

If it does not comply with the above it is not exempt from Building Regulations Approval and to become a lawful development Building Regulations Approval from the LA or an Approved Inspector is required.

 

[geraldthehamster]

It is all taken care of within Part L1B Existing Dwellings, no need of any special notes or other LABC blurb. http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1B_2010.pdf

If the conservatory complies with 3.15 (and 3.16) it will be exempt from the regs no matter how much or little of its roof or walls are glazed. Building such a conservatory is not notifiable.

If it does not comply with 3.15 it must comply with 4.8, there is no limit on how much or little of its roof or walls are glazed. Whilst it must comply with the regulations stipulated within 4.8 building such a conservatory is not notifiable.

If it does not comply with the above it is not exempt from Building Regulations Approval and to become a lawful development Building Regulations Approval from the LA or an Approved Inspector is required.

Yes, you are absolutely right, in theory.

Unfortunately, guidance a friend received from our local council, and also reported in these forums by other people, is that local authorities are choosing to follow the guidance sent to them by LABC, and have written to conservatory manufacturers to that effect.

LABC guidance says that the amount of glazing will still be considered, in deciding whether something is a conservatory. If the walls and roof are not substantially glazed, it will not be considered a conservatory in the first place, and therefore not be exempt from BR.

I agree with you that this goes against both the content of the approved document, and the guidance issued by the government at the time. However, until someone goes to the expense of testing this in the courts, local authorities will continue to make it a subject of building control enforcement.

That's my take on it.

Cheers
Richard

 

[tony1851]

Could it then be classed as a porch, of area < 30sq. m.?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

LABC guidance says that the amount of glazing will still be considered, in deciding whether something is a conservatory. If the walls and roof are not substantially glazed, it will not be considered a conservatory in the first place, and therefore not be exempt from BR.

Most people who build a typical conservatory will still find it exempt even using the latest LABC recommendations, if it is not substantially glazed its pretty obvious they're just pulling a fast one and are just building an extension (albeit with a door in between) and are just doing so to avoid the regs. If that's the case then tough doodoos.

It must be as follows:

1) Have at least 50% of external wall area formed from translucent materials (not including walls within 1metre of boundary
2) Have at least 75% of roof area formed from translucent materials
3) Be at ground level
4) Be effectively thermally separated from the main part of the dwelling

 

[tony1851]

Big porch?

 

[jeds]

It is all taken care of within Part L1B Existing Dwellings, no need of any special notes or other LABC blurb. http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1B_2010.pdf

If the conservatory complies with 3.15 (and 3.16) it will be exempt from the regs no matter how much or little of its roof or walls are glazed. Building such a conservatory is not notifiable.

If it does not comply with 3.15 it must comply with 4.8, there is no limit on how much or little of its roof or walls are glazed. Whilst it must comply with the regulations stipulated within 4.8 building such a conservatory is not notifiable.

If it does not comply with the above it is not exempt from Building Regulations Approval and to become a lawful development Building Regulations Approval from the LA or an Approved Inspector is required.

Yes, you are absolutely right, in theory.

Unfortunately, guidance a friend received from our local council, and also reported in these forums by other people, is that local authorities are choosing to follow the guidance sent to them by LABC, and have written to conservatory manufacturers to that effect.

LABC guidance says that the amount of glazing will still be considered, in deciding whether something is a conservatory. If the walls and roof are not substantially glazed, it will not be considered a conservatory in the first place, and therefore not be exempt from BR.

I agree with you that this goes against both the content of the approved document, and the guidance issued by the government at the time. However, until someone goes to the expense of testing this in the courts, local authorities will continue to make it a subject of building control enforcement.

That's my take on it.

Cheers
Richard

Any local authority that tells you this can be safely ignored. If thermally separated it is exempt (up to 30m²) if not it is an extension. Area of glass is only relevant if it is not exempt - i.e. if it is an extension.

 

[tony1851]

Porch?

 

[Sooboo]

Hi Guy
Thanks for all your help and advice but earlier today I phoned both planning and building dept of my local council which is Dover. They say as long as it is 4x3m accessed through the kitchen back door, which it will be, then I have no need for either departments permission. This is even though I want to build brick on either side. It appears as long as it is kept within the size limits and heating limits then it can be built of anything! She did say that the new building regs say I can increase out to 4m but if so the council will inform my neighbours to see if they object were as at the standard size I can do what I want. They also have forms that can be stamped as accepted which will stop any problems if I come to sell. Hope this clarifys the point with everyone.
Thanks again, good to know that so many people are on the ball and helpful.
Sue