DIY Kitchen/Diner help.

[Richyrich31]

Hi all - I have been a fan of this website for a long time but never had the need to register until now.

Basically I am living in my Moms house (She lives with her boyfriend in his house) but she wants a kitchen diner just to improve the layout.

At the moment, our bathroom is downstairs. We want to move the bathroom upstairs into the box room and knock through the wall to open it into a kitchen diner (But leaving the boiler where it is)

The plan at the moment is to brick up the existing back door and move it to where the bathroom window currently sits. This would enable us to maximise the kitchen space.

So the questions I have are;

1. Bricking up the back door. Is it simply the case of removing the door, then a simple brick/block job to fill in the void?

2. The dividing wall between the kitchen/bathroom is a single brick skin. How do I find out if it is safe to knock down and is there any specific process to do it? (Supports etc)

3. Where the wall sits at the moment, obviously when we move it there will be a dip in the concrete floor. How do we fill it in to get it level? We will be having lino.

4. With the bathroom going upstairs, my Moms boyfriend mentioned something about having a soil pipe running up the rear wall with a vented top??? (Whats he on about here) I thought a bathroom needed a simple soil pipe running to the main sewer line and then an extraction vent?

Sorry for the amount of questions but at the moment its a battle with my Moms boyfriend who seems to think hes Tommy Walsh and really exaggerates on his abilities (I have seen his work and its very amateur)

Any help is appreciated because communicating with my Moms boyfriend is driving me insane with his "Yeahhh its easy. If you cant do that then your a thicko" attitude.

Untitled

• Richyrich31
• 12 Nov 2013
• 1

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[ban-all-sheds]

Sounds like you need a builder who knows what he's doing and/or possibly a structural engineer. Given the questions you are asking I don't think you should be knocking down walls and installing WCs etc on the basis of asking random questions here hoping to find out everything you don't know.

You'll need Building Regulations approval for the work, which will mean proving to the council that the structural aspects are all sound etc.


Or find somewhere else to live and just let your Mum's boyfriend have at it with a sledgehammer.

 

[noseall]

As per Bas really, sounds like you are delving deep into B.C territory.

There are the thermal aspects of the build to consider as well as the structural ones and these may influence how the walls, floor and roof turn out regards finished levels etc.

 

[Richyrich31]

Update - I have researched lots, and watched various DIY/construction programs etc to arm myself with as much knowledge as possible.

My bathroom is now upstairs and complete. I've kept it simple and clean.

The dividing wall between the kitchen and what used to be the bathroom is now down (I checked that it wasn't load bearing and you could see the single brick skin under the floorboards and it wasn't holding anything up)

I have used breeze blocks o the inner skin of where the outside door used to be and "toothed out" the half bricks. I am now having problems with bricking it up as I can't seem to get the existing mortar joints to line up with my new ones unless the mortar bed is huge which looks ridiculous. I've spoke to a few brickies who might help.

I'm happy with it so far and have proved that it can be done by a DIY'er, its all in the research and bravery to just have a go! Will post pics when everything is complete

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Update - I have researched lots, and watched various DIY/construction programs etc to arm myself with as much knowledge as possible.

My bathroom is now upstairs and complete. I've kept it simple and clean.

And you applied for Building Regulations approval, right?

The dividing wall between the kitchen and what used to be the bathroom is now down (I checked that it wasn't load bearing and you could see the single brick skin under the floorboards and it wasn't holding anything up)

No joists resting on it?

You're sure you are competent to make structural decisions like that? And your Building Control department accepted your plans for compliance with Part A?

I have used breeze blocks o the inner skin of where the outside door used to be and "toothed out" the half bricks.

Building Control were happy with your plans for compliance with Part L?

 

[stuart45]

I am now having problems with bricking it up as I can't seem to get the existing mortar joints to line up with my new ones unless the mortar bed is huge which looks ridiculous. I've spoke to a few brickies who might help.

Metric bricks are smaller than the older Imperial ones, so you may have to get some.

 

[Richyrich31]

Update - I have researched lots, and watched various DIY/construction programs etc to arm myself with as much knowledge as possible.

My bathroom is now upstairs and complete. I've kept it simple and clean.

And you applied for Building Regulations approval, right?

The dividing wall between the kitchen and what used to be the bathroom is now down (I checked that it wasn't load bearing and you could see the single brick skin under the floorboards and it wasn't holding anything up)

No joists resting on it?

You're sure you are competent to make structural decisions like that? And your Building Control department accepted your plans for compliance with Part A?

I have used breeze blocks o the inner skin of where the outside door used to be and "toothed out" the half bricks.

Building Control were happy with your plans for compliance with Part L?

Wow! Thanks for the interrogation - but yes I have had BC out and conformed with the long list of regulations throughout. They are happy with the plans and many of the houses here have done similar. My girlfriends brother is also a structural engineer and has ticked everything off informally for additional peace of mind.

No there were no joists resting on it, hence why I stated it wasn't holding anything up. The brick was built BETWEEN joists and wasn't even holding up plasterboard. It was simply there as a room divider. It doesn't take a genius to lift the floorboard up and reveal whats underneath, I think too many people get put off by peoples attitude towards "structural changes" when in reality, if nothing is resting on the wall it is simply the case of carefully taking down the bricks. Painstaking but easily achievable.

Stuart45 - Unfortunately I found that out after I had bought the bricks (Only second hand ones for £30 so no great loss) I now have the imperial style bricks but the original mortar joints are huge (Well over 10mm) so I'm having the match the joints. Due to the weight of the bricks, my mortar bed keeps sinking therefore affecting the alignment. I have had a quote of £100 from a decent bricklayer which is more than fair IMO.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Wow! Thanks for the interrogation.

NP.

Look at it from our POV - you asked questions which indicated not a lot, if any, experience, which elicited advice about needing proper structural engineering competence, knowledge of a lot of Building Regulations, LABC approval etc, and then less than 4 weeks later you pop up and announce that you've knocked down walls etc on the basis of "lots" of research and watching construction-related light entertainment shows on TV.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Your mum's fella was right regarding the soil pipe. It should continue up to roof level to terminate to allow ventilation of the drainage system. Assume you've done this if B.C. are happy. An extraction vent is required if the room does not have an open-able window.

 

[Richyrich31]

Wow! Thanks for the interrogation.

NP.

Look at it from our POV - you asked questions which indicated not a lot, if any, experience, which elicited advice about needing proper structural engineering competence, knowledge of a lot of Building Regulations, LABC approval etc, and then less than 4 weeks later you pop up and announce that you've knocked down walls etc on the basis of "lots" of research and watching construction-related light entertainment shows on TV.

I didn't ask for you POV regarding how competent I am did I?

I asked questions to get answers, not for somebody to try and dominate the whole process with their high horse type attitude. Seriously, your attitude is awful.

Is it really that bad of me to undergo a change on my property and try to learn as I go? Or should we all simply rely on others to carry out the work? I am a kinesthetic learner and enjoy tackling problems hence why I decided to have a crack at it myself. At no point have I ventured into an area which is dangerous or unrealistic, I have carried out what most would describe as general DIY tasks, which is what this forum is all about right?

You mention "structural engineering competence" that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Either you have a different image of the wall in your head or you like the idea of complicating things. The wall was a single skin wall between the kitchen and bathroom which was supporting NOTHING. It came down a few controlled swings of a sledge hammer and the rest was simply picked out by hand.

I would invite you to come round and have a look at my work but I have a strong feeling we would not get along very well at all judging by your sanctimonious nature towards me.

I'm done with your pettiness and scrutinising opinions anyway. Feel free to reply but there are plenty of other like minded DIY enthusiasts who can/will offer me encouraging advice should I encounter any other issues.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

For what it's worth, it sounds to me like you have your head screwed on, have come here for advice, which is sensible, and informed building control of your intentions.

I'm not sure what the concerns are with part L as I can't see where you have done anything that would have affected the thermal efficiency of the house.

You checked that the wall wasn't load bearing and had an SE on hand for advice. I'm a structural engineer but I don't think you need to be one to be able to work out if a wall is load bearing. It really is just common sense, which you used.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with learning from the TV or the internet. I'm not sure how I would have done my job before the internet was around and I can certainly thank Kevin McCloud and Sarah Beeny for opening my eyes to a few new developments in the construction industry. In fact the IStructE are perfectly happy for engineers to gain CPD points from watching appropriate TV programmes.

Hope the rest of the alterations go well. Have a good one.

 

[tony1851]

in reality, if nothing is resting on the wall it is simply the case of carefully taking down the bricks. Painstaking but easily achievable.

Er, no; sometimes it's not quite that simple.

Just because a wall does not appear to be supporting anything above, it does not mean that it is non - structural.

It can sometimes be intended for lateral support of the main external wall (Approved Document A stipulates a maximum length of wall between return walls, buttreses, or internal walls).

This is to ensure that the main wall is properly stiffened to resist lateral loads, principally wind.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

in reality, if nothing is resting on the wall it is simply the case of carefully taking down the bricks. Painstaking but easily achievable.

Er, no; sometimes it's not quite that simple.

Just because a wall does not appear to be supporting anything above, it does not mean that it is non - structural.

It can sometimes be intended for lateral support of the main external wall (Approved Document A stipulates a maximum length of wall between return walls, buttreses, or internal walls).

This is to ensure that the main wall is properly stiffened to resist lateral loads, principally wind.

Although it's not likely to be an issue in a small domestic building. I'm assuming this is a small domestic building if the only bathroom is downstairs.

 

[tony1851]

Although it's not likely to be an issue in a small domestic building. I'm assuming this is a small domestic building if the only bathroom is downstairs.

You're right - I was probably being pedantic!

 

[RonnyRaygun]

No need to take up where ^woody^ left off

Has he sent you a post card from wherever he's gone to?