Why not class 1?

[flyingsparks]

Recently had the pleasure of fitting these class 2, metal light fittings. They came with an enclosed connector block. They were a PITA to connect, making sure everything was double insulated. With 3 cables and a loop in system, they would have been impossible. It made me wonder - how many light fitting like this have been put up by DIYers who simply thought "can't get these two cables in there, il put in a new piece of connector block"? Makes me wonder why they didn't manufacture such a fitting as class 1 and have an earth connection.

Untitled

• flyingsparks
• 9 Nov 2014
• 1

Untitled

• flyingsparks
• 9 Nov 2014
• 1

 

[mfarrow]

That is very poor form I agree. That clearly needs to be a Class I enclosure for the wiring, unless do what you've done or the drop is replaced with 2c flex. Most people will not recognise the need for that arrangement though!

Having said all that are you sure there's not an earth connection on the inside of the dome somewhere?

 

[flyingsparks]

That is very poor form I agree. That clearly needs to be a Class I enclosure for the wiring, unless do what you've done or the drop is replaced with 2c flex. Most people will not recognise the need for that arrangement though!

Having said all that are you sure there's not an earth connection on the inside of the dome somewhere?

Definitely no earth connection. Also has the double insulated symbol.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is there a transformer in the base?

 

[flyingsparks]

Is there a transformer in the base?

No it's g9 lamps.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ok, The reason I asked was because there are Class 2 12V fittings which used the metal parts as one of the 12V conductors.
Doesn't seem like a brilliant idea but these obviously should not be earthed.


Do the instructions for your fitting state that it must not be earthed?

 

[flyingsparks]

Ok, The reason I asked was because there are Class 2 12V fittings which used the metal parts as one of the 12V conductors.
Doesn't seem like a brilliant idea but these obviously should not be earthed.


Do the instructions for your fitting state that it must not be earthed?

Quite. Not sure I left the paper work with the customer but it certainly didn't have an earth terminal and did have a double insulated symbol. I was tempted to make them class 1 and earth them to make terminating them easier but didn't know if that would be the right hung to do either! (Type testing etc..)

 

[Taylortwocities]

I would have replaced that cr@p connector with couple more Wagos
The 112 is made for it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I would say you should use your judgement on whether to earth it or not.

The fitting itself may be Class 2 but the connectors are not.

 

[flyingsparks]

I would have replaced that cr@p connector with couple more Wagos
The 112 is made for it.

But then your going to have single insulated cables inside the enclosure which should be double insulated.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The metal enclosure encloses it, doesn't it? Have a look inside any ceiling rose - ooh single insulated conductors inside..

 

[JohnW2]

I would have replaced that cr@p connector with couple more Wagos ... The 112 is made for it.

But then your going to have single insulated cables inside the enclosure which should be double insulated.

I'm a little surprised that it qualifies as Class II even with that connector. Were the conductor to somehow 'come out' of the connector, the bare end would not even have single, let alone double, insulation between it and the metal casing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[flyingsparks]

The metal enclosure encloses it, doesn't it? Have a look inside any ceiling rose - ooh single insulated conductors inside..

A PLASTIC enclosure yes. Metal ones would either have a plastic lining inside or be earthed.

 

[stem]

I've just fitted a couple of lights very similar to this for the sister of a friend in a 1960's house where the lights are wired with PVC sheathed cables but no earth.

They wanted some chrome metal lights and when they first asked me if I would install some I explained that they would have to be double insulated and not need an earth connection. I then went away thinking that they wouldn't be able to find any. When they did and I unpacked them, I thought that they had made a mistake. Apparently not.

The fittings are completely metal and the terminals were exactly the same as the OP's photo, with the fiddly box and an insulated sheath to cover the incoming supply cables. I too wondered what I would have done if it had been a 'loop in' and there had been 6 wires.

The instructions stated that the fitting was class 2, didn't need an earth and there was a label inside showing the double insulated symbol (Box within a box). Interestingly the fittings integral wiring was not double insulated and appeared to be 'figure of 8' type looking more akin to SELV applications such as that used for garden lighting or loudspeakers.

Having said that, I wonder how many class 1 fittings with an earth terminal are connected to unearthed wiring by ignorant householders who think that if there isn't an earth wire present in their wiring, that they don't need one.

 

[JohnW2]

The instructions stated that the fitting was class 2, didn't need an earth and there was a label inside showing the double insulated symbol (Box within a box). Interestingly the fittings integral wiring was not double insulated and appeared to be 'figure of 8' type looking more akin to SELV applications such as that used for garden lighting or loudspeakers.

More than just 'interesting', it surely is not possible for it to really be 'Class II' if there was only a single ('basic') insulation between some conductors and the metal casing? Are we certain that there is not a plastic coating on the inside of the casing?

Kind Regards, John