Cooker supply

[Frank1964]

Hi guys
Hope you can assist, I am in the process of fitting a new kitchen and need some advice about the cooker feed
I have taken out a double oven which was wired to the distribution board with a 30a fuse, the new cooker is a single that needs a 20a fuse, I want to use the same cooker switch and take a spur off it to a fused switch spur to run two under cupboard lights, I then want to run a spur off this to run a single socket, is this feasible? Do I need to change the 30a fuse in the distribution board to 20a will I need to move it over in the board to the sockets side which looks to be covered by the rcd
Hope this makes sense, could really do with some help
Many thanks

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

It is not good practise to spur from the cooking appliance circuit, this should be dedicated to cooking appliances only.
Regardless of that, in addition to other related questions. Any newly buried cable and any additional sockets should be protected by a 30mA-RCD.

 

[Frank1964]

Hi
Thanks for the reply, sorry, I'm a complete novice at this so please bear with me, if I was to move the cooker wiring within the board to the rcd side and wire them into a 30Ma trip switch would this be acceptable for what I want to do, can't take Spurs from anywhere else on the wall because there are hot water pipes running from floor to ceiling and would imagine that I can't run a cable over these. I am aware that safety is paramount
Thanks

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

As previous post cooking appliance circuits, should be used for cooking appliances only.
What output is stated by the manufacture of the cooking appliance.

 

[Frank1964]

Hi
Stating in the instruction manual 2.5mm twin and earth, 15A min
Energy consumption 0.83kWh/cycle
Thanks

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Some will argue that is would be possible/feasible to install as your design and it would not be electrically unsafe, providing protective measures are taken. But I would personally keep the cooker circuit purely for cooking appliances.
Then I would employ an electrician to resolve your issue regarding further power outlets, there is always away, you maybe not seeing it!

 

[winston1]

Hi guys
Hope you can assist, I am in the process of fitting a new kitchen and need some advice about the cooker feed
I have taken out a double oven which was wired to the distribution board with a 30a fuse, the new cooker is a single that needs a 20a fuse, I want to use the same cooker switch and take a spur off it to a fused switch spur to run two under cupboard lights, I then want to run a spur off this to run a single socket, is this feasible? Do I need to change the 30a fuse in the distribution board to 20a will I need to move it over in the board to the sockets side which looks to be covered by the rcd
Hope this makes sense, could really do with some help
Many thanks

The fuse is to protect the wiring not the appliance which should have protection built in. No need to change the fuse.

 

[ericmark]

The fuse is to protect the wiring not the appliance which should have protection built in. No need to change the fuse.

Only for portable appliances the cooker is not a portable appliance so manufacturer can stipulate fuse size.

 

[ericmark]

With my mothers kitchen we had problems in her case age of installation so we ran a new kitchen supply to a distribution unit type tested and from there to all kitchen appliances and sockets.

It has been debated many times if one has a grid switch with 4 x 13A fuses why is that not considered as a consumer unit or creating new circuits. The BS7671 would class them as new circuits but it seems Part P does not?

The law is hard to work out the rules are easier, but they are not law.

As already said an electrician who is a scheme member does not need to worry about the LABC fees if he uses a new circuit or fits a consumer unit. So keeping to the letter of the law it will be cheaper to get a scheme member electrician to do the work than to DIY.

Once one says I am not worried about the law, all I want is safety then it actually becomes harder not easier as you need to inspect and test to ensure safety which requires test equipment which is not cheap.

In the main DIY means some risk taking and only the home owner can decide if it's worth the risk.

Main problem is you can't easy get two 6mm² cables into the terminals of a grid switch or fused connection unit. So to split the 6mm² cable you have to mess around using something which will take that size cable. Be it a cooker connection unit or a cooker isolation switch it will require a lot of messing around. What it looks like is also often a consideration does not matter how sensible using a mini consumer unit may be if she does not want it then can't use that method.

The problem with the forum is we can't really say go ahead break the law even if that is what we would say to you in private. Personally I think having the test equipment is far more important than the law, but the law is actually there to protect you I agree the price charged by LABC is silly so it has not worked, but in your case what I would do is call an electrician to give you a quote.

Likely it will be cheaper than the LABC charges and even if you decide not to use the electrician he will likely tell you what he would do so give you some pointers, but once you find the price likely you will decide not worth the hassle to DIY.

The rule is where the cable is protected against likely damage your allowed 3 meters between reduction in cross sectional area and the over load protection. With a socket the overload protection is the fuse in the plug. So you could terminate the 6mm² cable into a double cooker connection unit and take 6 x 2.5mm² cables (3 to each outlet) to 6 sockets or FCU, but you can't take it from one socket to the next socket. You could use Ali-tube cables and use RCD sockets, but if you can fit a RCBO in the consumer unit that would be better. Moving the cooker MCB to the RCD side of a consumer unit again needs a risk assessment, will that in turn cause danger? Really depends on the lights where they are fed from and also if the leakage of the cooker is likely to cause it to trip on a regular basis.

Writing it out it seems a lot of work, but in real terms risk assessments are not the written kind it's the quick look around and working out best option.

In theroy we could have a 16A RCBO feeding everything in the house from lighting to sockets, but if you did you would be resetting it all the time. Very early in the regulations we have the division of supply into circuits it lists 6 reasons why we should split them. Caravan and narrow boat users work with 16A but in the house we tend to use a bit more. If it was easy being an electrician would not be a trade, it would be like driving a car 10 lessons and a test and off you go, we don't consider a taxi driver as being a trade it takes 4 years to become an electrician in my dads day it took 7 years. Can't condense that into a forum response.

 

[sparkwright]

Not clear about the oven size. Somewhere there should be the total kW, or W, perhaps on a metal plate around the 'door frame' of the oven. Although you have specified minimum 15A, this could be a European rating, and we may be able to get it down to 13A.

 

[winston1]

The fuse is to protect the wiring not the appliance which should have protection built in. No need to change the fuse.

Only for portable appliances the cooker is not a portable appliance so manufacturer can stipulate fuse size.

But you are not obliged to take any notice and manufactures have been known to get it wrong.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It's an oven so they're probably considering protection of the supplied flex.


How long have ovens/cookers been around?

Why do we have this every time an oven or cooker is mentioned?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Frank,
Can you reveal the make and model of the appliance. We can then get a bit more information.

 

[Frank1964]

Hi
Make is Neue model SMO 1SS
It says in the user manual
Applicable types of cables for UK only
Connection via oven control unit

Min size cable/ flex 2.5mm square

Cable/ flex type pvc/pvc twin and earth

Fuse
15A min
20A min

Thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

I think you'll find it's NEVE but still can't find anything.