Replacing an oven unit - fusing

JM2

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Retired in:- Nottinghamshire
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We're having removed our old 1½ ovens (combined unit, wired to a 'cooker' point via a separate isolator switch fed from a dedicated circuit with a 30A MCB, RCD protected). To be replaced by two units, a full oven and a combined oven/microwave.

The main oven specifications states (all of these) fuse minimum 15A, fuse maximum 20A and fuse required 16A.
The combined oven unit specifications states (a clearer) 15A fuse (it rates this unit as 3.49kW).

The kitchen bod expects to run the main oven off the original circuit with a derated MCB fitted - but it's a Wylex board and a very quick look on-line suggests I might have trouble picking up an NB20.
He also expects to run the combined oven off the ring main nearby there (extended to suit).

Is there not a better solution, are there no cooker fused spur units that'll take an acceptable 15A/16A or 20A fuse that can be wired into the existing cooker circuit ?
 
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It has been a problem since we joined the EU that rest of Europe still use the old 15 amp radial system which became 16 amp as we moved to MCB's. Pre war we also had rows of 15 amp fuses, but our ring final system has always been 3 kW limit, and there are no easy ways to get over 3 kW without a dedicated supply.

With my mothers kitchen the installer used a mini consumer unit in the kitchen, with RCBO's. But as a manufacturer of installed equipment they can stipulate fuses, only had it commercially, not seen any domestic appliance stipulate a fuse, fitting semi-conductor fuses they will open faster than a MCB with a short circuit, and I have seen them stipulated with equipment using solid state relays, but never seen it with domestic appliances.

The regulations have said
[SIZE=4]APPENDIX 15 (Informative)[/SIZE] said:
The load current in any part of the circuit should be unlikely to exceed for long periods the current-carrying capacity of the cable (Regulation 433.1.5 refers). This can generally be achieved by:
(i) locating socket-outlets to provide reasonable sharing of the load around the ring
(ii) not supplying immersion heaters, comprehensive electric space heating or loads of a similar profile from the ring circuit
(iii) connecting cookers, ovens and hobs with a rated power exceeding 2 kW on their own dedicated radial circuit
(iv) taking account of the total floor area being served. (Historically, limit of 100 m² has been adopted.)
this would mean if followed the washer/dryer should also be on a dedicated circuit, as not intended to be moved and over 2 kW, if we tried to follow this many homes would need major work done to bring in the supply.

So we need to use some common sense. Personally I would select different products, the 32 amp supply to cookers has been standard in this country for years, and if a cooker be it oven or hot plate needs a supply lower than 32 amp the fuse or other overload should be built into the appliance. You can get flush consumer units 1692070371179.pngbut they still look ugly, my mother had something like this 1692070494871.jpeg on the wall in the kitchen, it looked ugly, but we had little option, dad said "I am not living in a building site, you can rewire the house when I have gone." so SWA cable was taken around the outside of the house to supply the kitchen as the existing rubber insulated wiring was in such a state, house was rewired after he died. But the kitchen consumer unit remained, it was supplied from a 45 amp MCB in the main consumer unit.

I have the consumer unit in this house in the back kitchen, but inside a wooden cupboard so not obvious what it is, together with the DNO meter and fuse, but the back kitchen is only used when having a BBQ, in the main all cooking is done in the front kitchen.

The wiring in my own house is not ideal, the utility room supplying the washing machine and tumble dryer was a problem due to loading, now with a heat pump dryer the load is only 400 watt, so not so much of a problem, but hot fill washing machines are no longer around, so water has to be electrically heated, rather than with the oil and central heating boiler, so nearly all homes have problems due to this ecology drive.

But who ever fits it has to raise a minor works certificate and so not easy to get around lack of supplies, he has to sign to say he has designed the system, I at one point worked fitting cookers, even back in the 90's we often had to walk away without fitting the cooker, felt sorry for the house holder, but we had to follow the rules, not so bad with electric, but gas rules were so strict, I would say on average 1 in 5 not fitted due to some issue, mainly clearance, cupboards too low was common.
 
Yes, you can connect both appliances to the cooker circuit.
Are you sure? With a standard oven I would have no qualms about using a double cooker connection unit supplying both devices, however here the manufacturer says
The main oven specifications states (all of these) fuse minimum 15A, fuse maximum 20A and fuse required 16A.
The combined oven unit specifications states (a clearer) 15A fuse (it rates this unit as 3.49kW).
This means
BS 7671:2008 said:
134.1.1 Good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. Electrical equipment shall be installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment.
this comes into play, I think latter editions do allow us only to take it into consideration, but if the manufacturer says 15 amp, then OK we may go to 16 amp same with 5 amp and 6 amp, but to double it without knowing why the manufacturer has given that limit would be bad workmanship.
 
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I would be inclined to connect both appliances to the 30amp cooker circuit.

If you really, really wanted to comply with manufacturers instructions, you could connect a 2way consumer unit containing two 16amp MCBs to the 30amp cooker circuit, and run both appliances from that.

But I think most would just connect both appliances directly to the 30amp cooker circuit.
 
Yes, I think I would; but having the kitchen fitted he wants/needs everything clear, cut and sorted "corectly".
I think (was thinking) the main issue is the "fused by" rating specified by the oven manufacture. Last night I did manage to at least find someone selling NB20s and NB15s (whether they really have any I don't know).

But this afternoon my (new to me) sparky rocked up for a looksee and after being moderately okay with both on the cooker circuit via 20A isolaters each then decided to use my second cooker circuit on the other side of the room and to extend that by chasing to the ovens position.

He looked up the two units on his phone whilst here and calculated it all on the ratings given (kW) - I don't know if he read the 'fused by' numbers or not.
We know it makes sense and I think I've found a sensible spark.

I think we're all happy with that arrangement so hopefully that'll work out when he's done.
 

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