Problem radiators

[carol derbyshire]

Hi, I had a plumber out on Thursday as 3 of my thermostatic valves on my radiators were not working. The plumber said I needed 3 new valves so he drained my system etc and completed the work. When he refilled the system we both went round my home to check all the radiators were working. I noticed that the one in my porch was not heating up and he said 'oh I've just turned that one on give it time', to be honest I was downstairs and thought hmmm he has not been down for a while, but thought maybe it could take a little longer with him draining the system.

I have 2 radiators in my living room dinning room and I noticed that the front one was not very warm at all either. He then went round all the radiators to bleed them but this still didn't help, so he turned all the radiators off and turned the two that were not heating on, they did heat up a little but still not great, by the way these were working fine thermostats and all before he came. So he then turned up the thermostat on my wall right up to see if that would help which it did slightly, I always have my heating set on 20 but he said it would probably have to be turned right up for a while. He then said I may need a new radiator in my porch as this was old and could have sludge in the bottom (strange because it was working fine before he came). He eventually got the radiators heated and said if I had any problems to ring him. Later I noticed my temperature was set on 29 and the porch radiator was luke warm and my front living room the same.

I contacted the plumber who came out the next day, he took the radiator off in the porch and drained it then put it back on, the radiator would not heat up and he said I needed a new radiator as it was broken and the thermostat had also broken, he then tried the front living room one again and said that thermostat was also broken, could this be coincidence as both radiators and valves were working fine before he came round. He left both the valves off, now I have no heat at all from my porch radiator which he said is broken, and my living room one is warm but not hot.

When the original 3 valves were not working I had to remove them and those radiators were really hot all the time hence no thermostatic valves so they kept heating up. The one in the bedroom had to be switched off all together as it was like a green house in there. So why is my living room radiator not piping hot as it has no thermostat on. I am going to ring him back to get him to come back out, so any help or ideas would be most helpful, I'm a female living on my own so not sure if he being 100% with me on this. I paid him £200, I know it's not a fortune but when he came I had 3 faulty thermostats all radiators were working, now I am down £200 and have another 2 faulty thermostats 1 broken radiator and 1 radiator not heating correctly even without thermostat.

 

[dilalio]

Power flush needed.

 

[carol derbyshire]

Power flush needed.

Hi, thank you for your reply, do you think the problem has been caused when he drained the system and then refilled it. It's just I would like to have a little understanding of what caused the problem before I speak to him and will I be expected to pay him to do this also.

Thanks Again
Carol

 

[JohnD]

or maybe not.

Start by turning off all the hot radiators, and see if the cold ones warm up. Feel them to see if they are hot in the bottom corners and cold in the middle; or hot at the top and cold at the bottom.

If you can't turn them off at one end, for example if the valve is broken, screw down the spindle at the other end. It might have a plastic cap over it.

I have a feeling the person you used was not recommended to you by a friend or neighbour. I would not plan to tip any more money over him just yet. Perhaps you can find someone better.

Some photos of your faulty radiator valves would be useful.

 

[carol derbyshire]

The plumber I used has done work for me before, he did plumbing on my kitchen when I had it fitted earlier this year and seemed fine. I have already tried turning radiators off as did the plumber, but I did this again earlier today to no avail. I just can't understand how a radiator can heat up fine then suddenly be (broken) as he put it on the very day he did the job for me. By the way he drained the system via the now broken radiator, not sure if this could make any difference or is any help at all.

Carol

 

[simond]

Well, a radiator is just a tin can full of water. It can't be broken, it is either watertight or not. If it is blocked he would have noticed when he removed it.

Far more likely is the possibility of an airlock, or a blockage caused by the draining and refilling process, the risk of which is heightened if you have a 'microbore' system. Sticking thermostatic valves is often a by product of sludge contamination issues.

So, it is possible that your system is severely sludge contaminated and if this is so, the poor bloke won't be looking forward to coming back. Whatever the cause, I think a new radiator won't help one iota.

 

[dilalio]

I am a believer in the power flush!
Recently, I replaced my Boiler and converted to a combi system at the same time... I power flushed my "well maintained" circuit while at it as I have my own pf machine... I was amazed at the amount of crap that I got out of it!
It's quite a cost (£400-600 plus chems) but worth it in my opinion...

 

[D_Hailsham]

Which boiler do you have and what temperature setting is the boiler on? It should be about 75C.

If there is a separate pump (normally in the airing cupboard) what setting is it on?

 

[carol derbyshire]

Well, a radiator is just a tin can full of water. It can't be broken, it is either watertight or not. If it is blocked he would have noticed when he removed it.

Far more likely is the possibility of an airlock, or a blockage caused by the draining and refilling process, the risk of which is heightened if you have a 'microbore' system. Sticking thermostatic valves is often a by product of sludge contamination issues.

So, it is possible that your system is severely sludge contaminated and if this is so, the poor bloke won't be looking forward to coming back. Whatever the cause, I think a new radiator won't help one iota.

Which boiler do you have and what temperature setting is the boiler on? It should be about 75C.

If there is a separate pump (normally in the airing cupboard) what setting is it on?

Hi, it' combi boiler Alpha CD32C, not sure what setting it's on as I can't find anything telling me this.

 

[dilalio]

Power flush needed.

Hi, thank you for your reply, do you think the problem has been caused when he drained the system and then refilled it. It's just I would like to have a little understanding of what caused the problem before I speak to him and will I be expected to pay him to do this also.

Thanks Again
Carol

Hi Carol,

From a plumber's point of view:
We get called to a job to address a specific issue a customer has raised, such as "3 TRVs not working" and we try to calculate what we'd need to do, what parts we might need and how long it would take in order to provide an estimate on arrival.
With any plumbing "system" the initial problem (as first noticed by the customer) is very often just the tip of the Iceburg and is an indicator of several underlying problems.
To an experienced plumber, these become evident very quickly when the task in hand commences.
I personally spend an hour appraising things whilst starting the work I was called in for and then raise any concerns I may have, to the customer.
Sludged up systems is a very common problem and draining down a system will concentrate blockages at lower levels towards drain-off points. The colour and viscosity of the water coming out tells one a lot! I always drain off whilst leaving the supply open, to allow fresh water to assist in pushing the old water and muck out.
Most often, a day spent tweaking and feed flushing will do the trick and get most of the crud out. I then add a good cleaner and leave that for several days, before returning to flush this out and replace with inhibitor which is extra cost but covered in my price.
I would however, have primed the customer that, if this fails, we'd likely have to resort to a Powerflush - their decision to try A then B or go straight to B.
If your plumber spent a day, trying to get things circulating then £200 isn't ripping you off, but he perhaps should have warned you of the underlying problem(s) and potential further work.
Hope this helps.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Hi, it' combi boiler Alpha CD32C, not sure what setting it's on as I can't find anything telling me this.

Thanks. As it's a combi, the pump is built into the boiler and not adjustable.

The radiator water temperature is controlled by the knob on the right (next to the clock, if fitted).

Which number is it pointed at?

 

[Agile]

The plumber I used has done work for me before, he did plumbing on my kitchen when I had it fitted earlier this year and seemed fine.

Carol

Fitting new supply pipes in a kitchen is a relatively simple job.

Dealing with heating systems is far more complicated and requires considerable experience.

For any plumber to say that a passive rad with no moving parts is "broken" defies belief.

But some of my colleagues say that I can be too harsh on them.

But my view is that anyone undertaking work should only do so if he is totally competent to do it.

Tony

 

[dilalio]

The only way a rad can be broken is if it has a hole in it... And not one of the four that are meant to be in it

 

[carol derbyshire]

The plumber I used has done work for me before, he did plumbing on my kitchen when I had it fitted earlier this year and seemed fine.

Carol

Fitting new supply pipes in a kitchen is a relatively simple job.

Dealing with heating systems is far more complicated and requires considerable experience.

For any plumber to say that a passive rad with no moving parts is "broken" defies belief.

But some of my colleagues say that I can be too harsh on them.

But my view is that anyone undertaking work should only do so if he is totally competent to do it.

Tony

Hi Tony, the guy I used is corgi registered, he fits central heating systems so I am starting to think, is he trying to get more money out of me as he said it was an older radiator than all the others in my home and needed replacing, that was the reason he gave for the radiator not working. First he said the thermostatic valve was broken, when he took it off the radiator should have been piping hot which I pointed out, he then went on to say that the radiator was broken and would need replacing. Hmmmmmm

 

[carol derbyshire]

Hi, it' combi boiler Alpha CD32C, not sure what setting it's on as I can't find anything telling me this.

Thanks. As it's a combi, the pump is built into the boiler and not adjustable.

The radiator water temperature is controlled by the knob on the right (next to the clock, if fitted).

Which number is it pointed at?

Hi, both the hot water and heating knobs are both set at number 5, which is where they have always been.