What, then, are your reasons because of knowledge for earthing ClassII lighting.
Quite so. A common example is with cooking appliances, the manufacturers of which often do not appear to have heard of diversity. Whether some regard it as 'bad' or not, I would lose no sleep in 'ignoring' an instruction which required' a 32A OPD when I knew that 20A would be more than adequate.
That's fair enough, and correct. If one has inadequate knowledge and/or insufficient understanding of the reason for the quoted maximum dosage, then it is totally appropriate that you should ('blindly') follow the 'fail safe' instructions designed for those "with practically zero technical knowledge".
It would depend upon the circumstances. I'm not saying that I want to earth all class II lighting fixtures, but I gave an example earlier of a desk lamp. While supposedly double-insulated, when I examined it closely I was not at all happy with the construction and decided that I would be happier - in that particular case - rewiring with a 3-core flex and securely attaching an earth to the casing.
I'm getting a bit confused by this discussion. Whilst there are certainly people who have said that "it shouldn't do any harm", has anyone actually suggested/advocated that one should earth exposed-c-ps (if one is allowed to call them that in this situation!) of a Class II lighting fitting. I certainly haven't - on the contrary, I've said that I personally would not do it - any more than I woulkd unnecessarily earth an 'isolated' bath, worktop of window frame (because I don't approve of unnecessarily earthed metal of any sort).
In that case you have no option but to follow the manufacturer's instructions. If OTOH you did understand the reasons, you would have no option but to follow the manufacturer's instructions.
Yet you persist in asking.
It is only relevant electrically because it relates to the safety of people.
It relates to the safety of people.
What is so difficult to understand?
Only the internal electrical parts; NOT the exposed-c-ps.
Yes, it does.
My comment was in relation a a regulation in BS7671, not MIs.
I'm not sure in what sense you mean "no option". As I an others have said, there are situations in which I 'loose no sleep' if I personally 'over-ride' MIs.
That's a big caveat! How do you decide who is a 'good manufacturer'?
Presumably you meant 'lose', not 'loose'? There are people who lose no sleep over shoplifting, drug dealing, and various other things. That doesn't make it right.
With difficulty, I agree. There are some whose instructions are clearly wrong, but in that case you would be safer changing the product for a better one than guessing if you know more about the product than its manufacturer does.
As I said pages back, if everyone would agree/admit that these regulations/instructions are saying that one should not earth exposed metal parts of a Class II electrical item because, just as with a metal window frame, it is undesirable to increase the amount of touchable earthed metal around the place, then I would have run of things to say a long time ago.
Eh? .....
Eh? again. As you go on to quote:
I do not know what sort of product that might be but it is definitely not a Class II light fitting and presumably the manufacturer will not, for such a product, state that "This product must not be earthed".
I did - apologies.
OK - so you're saying that the reason why I would have "no option" but to follow MIs is because it 'would not be right' to do otherwise (despite, as far as I am aware, the lack of any particular legal standing of MIs for domestic items), not because what I did would necessarily be in any way problematical?
But how are you deciding that some are "clearly wrong" without invoking the 'arrogance' you previously mentioned? Might it not be you who is 'wrong'?
Nor do I - but, as I said, it's an indication that BS7671 is not saying that exposed parts of a Class II must never be earthed.
You must have a better crystal ball than I do!
Obviously not. I've been participating in this discussion for a long time without actually investigating the facts. How common actually is it for Class II items with exposed metal parts (themselves relatively uncommon) to have this "must not be earthed" instruction, I wonder? Probably most times I see the "This product must not be earthed" instruction, it is essentially silly, since it relates to a totally plastic-encased item which has nothing "to earth" even if I wanted to! The main exceptions are power tools & small kitchen appliances etc., but in those cases it would be difficult, if not impossible, to find a way of earthing the exposed metal parts, a good few of which will be moving parts.
Why? Nothing obliges me to obey the manufacturer's instructions.
And how is the determination made between a "good" manufacturer whose instructions one supposedly has no option but to obey, and a "bad" manufacturer whose instructions, presumably, you are saying can be ignored?
I'm not sure I'd say that. Looking around me right here I see several "wall cube" type of power supplies (with exposed metal on the connectors for the intended equipment), a couple of metal desk and stand lamps, and a Denon DVD player sporting a "Double insulated" wording and symbol, with all metal outside casing and multiple RCA jacks bolted right onto the rear panel. I know in one of my toolboxes I have at least one double-insulated regular electric drill, two or three miniature Dremel drills, all double-insulated with exposed metal drive shafts and chucks. In the kitchen is a double-insulated toaster with exposed metalwork, ditto for a small rice cooker. You've already noted some of these.
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