No earth cable on light fitting

[stephen12345]

I tried to put a light up and unfortunately there is no earth cable from the ceiling. I emailed the manufacturer to ask whether it would be safe, and they replied with the following message below. I don't really understand it to be fair! Could anyone decipher this and let me know if it would be safe to put up? I think it may be a no...thanks!

I can confirm the fitting is Class I, earthed. This is a further degree of safety to that strictly required by the lamp holder and cable which are double insulated (Class II). However, as Class I we provide additional protection within the ceiling rose (so in case a strand of wire should be/become loose rather than secured within the connector).


The fitting has been independently tested and found to be fully incompliance with EN 60598 Safety of Luminaires and is labelled as the standard stipulates.


The fitting should be connected, via the middle terminal of the connector block which is attached to the green and yellow earth lead, to the house earth.


As Class I, Earthed was the first electrical “safety system” it does not require, and indeed must not have, any special symbol to identify. Subsequent safety systems: Class II, double insulation and Class III, super low voltage do have symbols, the square with a square and three horizontal bars within a diamond respectively.


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[Iggifer]

No, you cannot use a Class I light fitting on a circuit that has no earth.

Your two options are:
-have the circuit rewired so that it does have an earth
-choose another light fitting

Are you 100% sure there is no earth? It could have been cut/pushed back. Is there any sign of steel conduit hidden in the ceiling?

Post a photo if you're not sure.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I can confirm the fitting is Class I, earthed. This is a further degree of safety to that strictly required by the lamp holder and cable which are double insulated (Class II). However, as Class I we provide additional protection within the ceiling rose (so in case a strand of wire should be/become loose rather than secured within the connector).

Well, they can't have it both ways.
Either it is Class II and does not require and should not be earthed or it is Class I and must be earthed.

 

[stephen12345]

Here are pics of the fitting and the light I want to wire in

Thanks!

 

[Iggifer]

I took this to mean the actual drop was class II but the ceiling 'rose' was Class I. If any part of it is Class I, then clearly it is all Class I, regardless of any 'extra' protection

 

[Iggifer]

Here are pics of the fitting and the light I want to wire in

Thanks!

Remove that ceiling rose, pull those cables down and see what else is there. Could be that they just didn't bother bring the earth through into the rose as it's not needed

 

[Taylortwocities]

You need to remove the ceiling rose, and see if there is another connector up in the ceiling.
As the wires coming down are both brown, its a geed bet that the wiring is relatively recent and that there will be an earth connection up there.

If you cannot see from below, then you may need to get access from above.

 

[stephen12345]

OK great ill give it a go- fingers crossed!

 

[Echo the husky]

Yes please do let us know, and post photos of what you find! You may find that some plank has fitted the plaster rose right over the old pendant base and the base and the wiring are now trapped between the ceiling and the plaster rose.

 

[stephen12345]

Yea Freddo just as you had predicted!! Can't see past the ceiling rose....how much you reckon it would cost to have an electrician either source the earth cable, or if one doesn't exist to re-wire one in? Seems like it's got to that stage. Thanks!!

 

[Echo the husky]

There will likely be an earth cable with the wiring.

Can you get above the ceiling? The connections might be acessible there.

If you can't get above the ceiling you may need to smash through the plaster rose...

 

[Taylortwocities]

A more simple/cheaper solution would be to return that light to M&S and buy one that is double insulated (aka Class II). Then an earth would not be necessary.

This site specialises in them (other places sell them too!)

 

[winston1]

Either it is Class II and does not require and should not be earthed

This is often stated, but what harm can come from earthing a class 2 appliance?

 

[Echo the husky]

But you don't get to hit things with a hammer that way.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Either it is Class II and does not require and should not be earthed

This is often stated, but what harm can come from earthing a class 2 appliance?

Because the metal parts could be made live by a fault elsewhere.

If you are going to negate the benefit of making something double insulated/Class II then you may as well not do it.