LED MR16 bulbs
- Thread starter diycooper
- Start date
Sponsored Links
There are several options
Change every transformer for a compatable LED driver
or
HAve one LED driver to serve all of the LED lamps, but that will probably mean a degree of re-cabling
or
use 230v LED lamps and eliminate the old 12v "transformers" altogether.
Change every transformer for a compatable LED driver
or
HAve one LED driver to serve all of the LED lamps, but that will probably mean a degree of re-cabling
or
use 230v LED lamps and eliminate the old 12v "transformers" altogether.
Its anybody's guess. They mostly come with an average lifetime posted on them. Some have a warranty too.
Sponsored Links
My 12v Led are working with the old 12 volt standard transformers, If they do not get changed to 12v Led transformers will it kill the bulbs ?
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2008
- Messages
- 23,679
- Reaction score
- 2,668
- Location
- Llanfair Caereinion, Nr Welshpool
- Country
It could go either way. If you have a real transformer (not an electronic transformer) then the lights should in theroy work without any changes. However in practice in my house this was not the case. I think it is all down to the quality of the LED to start with and mine were very poor quality.
From a previous, similar, thread….
Ok so mine are working fine without changing the transformers to led transformers .
Would you just leave or change transformers to led transformers ?
I only see the point in changing the transformers to led transformers if it is going to make the bulbs last as if not the expanse and time will be for nothing.
Would you just leave or change transformers to led transformers ?
I only see the point in changing the transformers to led transformers if it is going to make the bulbs last as if not the expanse and time will be for nothing.
If it works then leave it as it is.
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2008
- Messages
- 23,679
- Reaction score
- 2,668
- Location
- Llanfair Caereinion, Nr Welshpool
- Country
I would agree if it works leave it alone. Any damage is already done, and likely no damage anyway. Just as information not for you to act upon I will try to explain what happened.
In the early days we used toroidal transformers which reduced the voltage to around 5.2% of the original voltage so with 230 volt in you got 12 volt out. These were expensive lumps, and heavy lumps and large lumps. And the output voltage varied with the input voltage. It did mean the filament of the lamp was thicker so lasted longer but as to if it lasted long enough extra to be worth the cost not really sure. They also had a large inrush of power on switch on so could not be used with easy to dim lamps. However the whole idea of a quartz lamp is to maintain as really steady temperature which in real terms means they are not suitable for dimming.
The next stage was to use a high frequency transformer which allowed it to be far smaller so to get the high frequency means using electronics and since using electronics it was only one small step to include voltage regulation as the same time. Be it called switch mode or pulse width modulated it is really the same thing the power is switched on and off so the average is 12 volt and the tungsten filament did not really mind it being pulsed rather than a steady supply. There is a limit how small the pulse can be so instead of zero to 200 Watt the new device was 50 to 200 Watt typical and you needed at least 50W draw. They included both over and under current shut down so with 4 bulbs at 50W each when last one ruptures then the device closes down.
The LED as an AC package, in general should be able to run off a toroidal transformer as the output is sinusoidal wave form, but with the electronic transformer the wave form could be any shape and the spikes could damage the circuit controlling the LED or the LED its self. As a result many supply the LED with a DC power supply. The LED chip is a current dependent DC device, but as a package they are often made into voltage dependent and can be AC or DC. This is where the problem arises inside the package there is what is called a driver this takes the voltage supplied and turns it into current required all built into the plastic envelope.
Be it designed for a caravan or a house the MR16 package with G5.3 pins looks the same. But inside they are very different. The caravan package often has a pulse width modulated controller built in and can work with DC from 10 to 36 volt. The house types generally are lacking any information they often don’t have any tolerance marked up and just state 12 volt. Not 11 ~ 13 or +/- 1 volt they don’t even say AC or DC and it is a simple suck it and see. So in real terms only way to be sure they will work is with a 12 volt DC power supply.
Getting a 12 volt DC power supply is also a problem with raw LED chips we use drivers these will have a range of voltage but a set current so for example 320 mA at 3 to 50 volt. But where there is a driver already built in then we don’t want a driver we just want a simple 12 volt power supply. However, the manufacturers tend to call fixed voltage units drivers, as well and the real drivers. Unlike the transformer and electronic transformer where the word electronic tells you what type it is, the so called driver has nothing to identify which type it is with out reading the specifications carefully.
As a result the easy way out is to forget extra low voltage and used low voltage (230 Vac) instead.
But for you as said do nothing it works so leave it.
In the early days we used toroidal transformers which reduced the voltage to around 5.2% of the original voltage so with 230 volt in you got 12 volt out. These were expensive lumps, and heavy lumps and large lumps. And the output voltage varied with the input voltage. It did mean the filament of the lamp was thicker so lasted longer but as to if it lasted long enough extra to be worth the cost not really sure. They also had a large inrush of power on switch on so could not be used with easy to dim lamps. However the whole idea of a quartz lamp is to maintain as really steady temperature which in real terms means they are not suitable for dimming.
The next stage was to use a high frequency transformer which allowed it to be far smaller so to get the high frequency means using electronics and since using electronics it was only one small step to include voltage regulation as the same time. Be it called switch mode or pulse width modulated it is really the same thing the power is switched on and off so the average is 12 volt and the tungsten filament did not really mind it being pulsed rather than a steady supply. There is a limit how small the pulse can be so instead of zero to 200 Watt the new device was 50 to 200 Watt typical and you needed at least 50W draw. They included both over and under current shut down so with 4 bulbs at 50W each when last one ruptures then the device closes down.
The LED as an AC package, in general should be able to run off a toroidal transformer as the output is sinusoidal wave form, but with the electronic transformer the wave form could be any shape and the spikes could damage the circuit controlling the LED or the LED its self. As a result many supply the LED with a DC power supply. The LED chip is a current dependent DC device, but as a package they are often made into voltage dependent and can be AC or DC. This is where the problem arises inside the package there is what is called a driver this takes the voltage supplied and turns it into current required all built into the plastic envelope.
Be it designed for a caravan or a house the MR16 package with G5.3 pins looks the same. But inside they are very different. The caravan package often has a pulse width modulated controller built in and can work with DC from 10 to 36 volt. The house types generally are lacking any information they often don’t have any tolerance marked up and just state 12 volt. Not 11 ~ 13 or +/- 1 volt they don’t even say AC or DC and it is a simple suck it and see. So in real terms only way to be sure they will work is with a 12 volt DC power supply.
Getting a 12 volt DC power supply is also a problem with raw LED chips we use drivers these will have a range of voltage but a set current so for example 320 mA at 3 to 50 volt. But where there is a driver already built in then we don’t want a driver we just want a simple 12 volt power supply. However, the manufacturers tend to call fixed voltage units drivers, as well and the real drivers. Unlike the transformer and electronic transformer where the word electronic tells you what type it is, the so called driver has nothing to identify which type it is with out reading the specifications carefully.
As a result the easy way out is to forget extra low voltage and used low voltage (230 Vac) instead.
But for you as said do nothing it works so leave it.
Philips LED 12v lamps are quite happy on almost all 'transformers'. Apparently they used some clever elektroniky stuff to make them work even on devices with a 20va minimum loading.
Bloody spoke to son. Just gone down and one light was on and all the other off. I turned the switch off then on and about 5 out of 8 come on , 1 stayed off and the other 2 are flickering.
Will ordering the led transformers fix this ?
Will ordering the led transformers fix this ?
No but says on the box our LED lighting products can be used as a direct replacement for all conventional lighting.
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
