stuck stop valve

[mrcrow]

further to my earlier post on bathroom refit

i am ready to install my wc and basin
question 1
the existing stop valve is stuck..and i dont want to force it shut...it might then not open or even the handle break off...
i have been using the stop valve in the street outside..its for my house only
what i would like to do is fit a new one in the existing piping layout
the pic will show the piping has a branch to the existing wc with a longish coiled up valved flexible..which is leaking a bit
the pipework then goes vertically down beneath the flooring and

question 2
the piping then reappears in a quite exotic form to feed where the old basin was situated
there are two more out of the floor bits of pipework further along for the bath and i intend to put compression stop ends as i am fitting a shower cubicle instead of the bath..which is coming out completely.

any advice greatly appreciated
cheers
geof

 

[Dan Robinson]

Please tell us that pipe work is being changed?

 

[mrcrow]

Please tell us that pipe work is being generated changed?

well thank you, sir
yes what i would like to have is a brand new stop valve as close to the existing...then a feed to the wc with a flexible with integrated service valve

at the basin position, dont you think that the existing bendy method needs to be..lets say generated changed?
they look quite unusual to me, but the constraints of the curved pipework may make replacement difficult

i am asking an experienced plumbing person to advise on a method i could use to generate new pipework...and i have thought that push fit may be an answer but is there enough straight portion to fit connections.

at the stop valve i would like to intstall push fit items..due to the position of the piping being close to the wall
as i have stated the existing pipe feed from the wc area to the basin risers is routed below the floor level and i propose leaving them there.

most convenient would be to be able to isolate the house water supply inside..at a stop valve which is new and reliable to shut and open.

that in a nutshell is what i would like to do...but thinking this is not quite an easy work in my terms i ask the more experienced to advise...and give me some reassurance rather than blunder on and land myself in trouble

thank you sir for your post

 

[Doggit]

This is very much going to depend on your plumbing skills. You're going to need to remove the 90degree WC pan connector to be able to get at the stop valve, but looking at the picture, I'm not sure how much room you've got to remove and replace the stop cock. But if you can manage to do that, you can then start replacing the pipework as you go. You'll need to dig out the floor around the hot and cold pipes to be able to connect new pipes to them, unless you can bring in a new hot and cold supply at a more conveniant location.

I suspect you may need a plumber to do the work though.


Best of luck.

 

[terryplumb]

the copper pipe that is coming to the stop cock would appear to be coming thru the wall ( with tiles on ) ,what is on the reverse side of that wall ,and is the copper pipe more accessible there ? may be a better place for a new stopcock if it is.

 

[Dan Robinson]

eeds to be..lets say generated changed?

Autocorreckt got the better of me. But I was struggling to comprehend your post.

I've edited mine accordingly. And I'll review read your posts in a bit. Ultimately though, that Flexi will need to be changed and the copper needs the bendy bits sweating out of the elbows and starting again from there.

 

[mrcrow]

This is very much going to depend on your plumbing skills. You're going to need to remove the 90degree WC pan connector to be able to get at the stop valve, but looking at the picture, I'm not sure how much room you've got to remove and replace the stop cock. But if you can manage to do that, you can then start replacing the pipework as you go. You'll need to dig out the floor around the hot and cold pipes to be able to connect new pipes to them, unless you can bring in a new hot and cold supply at a more conveniant location.

I suspect you may need a plumber to do the work though.


Best of luck.

thanks Doggit...and i do take your point about a plumber...
i am taking out the wc and all its bits...the new one is close coupled and i have a new bendy pan connector which hopefully will do the job...if not screwfix are about 10 minutes a way...the old on there is holding fine..i have had the pan out a couple of times doing the flooring...and when the plywood arrives it will come out finally i hope..
i have some spanners and shifters left over from my apprenticeship days as a marine engineer
but i think wise to buy a couple of exact fit ones for that stop valve if i do decide to take it out...
my original idea was to leave it in place and cut the piping, prepare the stub to take a push fit stop valve...this is my idea of course and one that an amateur might contemplate against fighting the wonky valve...its stuck full open..
i will then i think run clean piping above the floor and seal off the underfloor redundant pipework
should be easy for the cold...the hot comes from the boiler and i could take it from the old feed for the bath..both hot and cold feeds to the bath are no longer required...just having the electric shower..
your reply was quite lucid...THANKS!!!
cheers
geof..

 

[mrcrow]

the copper pipe that is coming to the stop cock would appear to be coming thru the wall ( with tiles on ) ,what is on the reverse side of that wall ,and is the copper pipe more accessible there ? may be a better place for a new stopcock if it is.

thanks Terry
the incoming riser is what it is...the other side is the hallway...and that pipe comes underground...
its a real tight a*se fit if you ask me... but must have looked clean and neat in 1987/90..

appreciate your very lucid post...

be doing it in a couple of days after the levelling and ply go on the floor...
which i am going to do some of it tonight...i find it better to work the wee hours...then wake up knowing its done..
cheers
geof

 

[mrcrow]

Please tell us that pipe work is being changed?

apologies...i forgot the punch line..
typical of me...i think that you know what i think but havent said
yes if i can get a new stop valve on i will run new and as i said to doggit i think i can pick up a hot feed from the other side of the room where the bath is and wont be..
that is irish!!
i have been looking at push fit fittings...and stop valve and since the existing pipework in the area of the old stop valve is tight to the wall, those fittings would be easier...just to push on
i have a plunge tool so i can cut the pipe that way...and i know..prepare the ends so that they havent any burrs and squeaky clean..at least up to the depth the pipe needs to go into the fitting
i have a regular copper pipe cutter and the one to cut barrier pipe as i have done a bit of piping in the garage for our laundry and an external water supply to wash my car...
whatever it takes..i enjoy hands on having trained as a marine engineer and done a bit of ships pipework, design as well
you chaps are a great benefit being here
cheers
geof

 

[terryplumb]

think you are wrong about the supply pipe coming in vertically from underground ,have a real close look. it certainly looks like an elbow under the stopcock ,and copper pipe going under the tile at floor level.

 

[Doggit]

Now being a Marine engineer changes the picture completely. I'd be tempted to suggest you invest in a bit of plumbing gear, and have a go at doing the job properly. Push fittings are okay, but they're not neat, and having a push fit stop cock, means you've got to be more carfull turning it on and off - not that you should have to do it very often. As you seem to be doing a completel refit of the bathroom, don't be afriad of knocking holes in walls to be able to get at pipes better.

 

[mrcrow]

Now being a Marine engineer changes the picture completely. I'd be tempted to suggest you invest in a bit of plumbing gear, and have a go at doing the job properly. Push fittings are okay, but they're not neat, and having a push fit stop cock, means you've got to be more carfull turning it on and off - not that you should have to do it very often. As you seem to be doing a completel refit of the bathroom, don't be afriad of knocking holes in walls to be able to get at pipes better.

i like that..yes i would go for that...i bought a £60 titan hammer drill..mains to rip up the floor tiles...a hire for 2 days would have cost me the same...but now i have the monster with a 2 year guarantee and a kit of sds masonry drills...cant wait to put up some shelving in the garage!!
it literally sinks into the blockwork
made quick and easy work to the tiling..taking all the adhesive off on run 2
doing the levelling tonight...some of the chipboard came up with the adhesive
no no nonsense leveller is ACE!!

so i will get the correct spanners and dig into that corner...may be able to couple up easily to the existing "riser"..its a bungalow
i am convinced now just after you chaps putting in some experience that i will run new pipework for the wc and basin
better all round...and not fiddly trying to match
would push fit be ok on the other pipwork...not the valve??
it seemed so convenient when i did the garage laundry and wash the car outside tap..
cheers
geof

 

[Doggit]

If you're happy with the bulky nature of push fit, then go with it. If you want to try with copper fittings, then you'll need a propane torch and a few other bits, and you'll find a lot of youtube videos to help you.

 

[mrcrow]

If you're happy with the bulky nature of push fit, then go with it. If you want to try with copper fittings, then you'll need a propane torch and a few other bits, and you'll find a lot of youtube videos to help you.

yes i have done solder joints in the past with great success...dont have my blowlamp now but i could buy one...it will have lots of use...and use the ring solder type..or am i out of date..
i still have the solder from about 1992 and two soldering irons...i had a bass guitar and was forever changing electrics...
the problem i had with piping solder fittings is one leaked and the pipe still had water in it...i drained it all down to do the job
what do you chaps use nowadays for that situation.? and
are they easy to come off if they are old...ie sweating...do you need flux paste for that..still have mine
will look at a few youtubes..
you know i might even make a plumbers mate.
speaking of that what do i need to fit the new wc waste to make it slip in and not leak
so much to know...
cheers
geof

 

[Madrab]

You basically have to go back to the start with that setup.
Yes get a soldering torch. The trick with soldering on an existing installation is to get the system drained down properly so you can solder the fittings. Pipework with water in it won't get hot enough to allow soldering to take. You may have to blow through/wet vac some of the pipework to ensure it is empty of water.
Old solder fittings will release with heat, again it just needs to be empty of water. Once the fitting is removed have a wet cloth with some flux on it, heat the end and quickly wipe the soldered pipe end, the old solder should lift onto the cloth, just watch your fingers with the heat.
Solder ring fittings are fine to use and easier for a novice to create soldered pipe runs with. Just clean the pipe till shiny, use just enough flux on the pipe end and don't heat the fittings too fiercely (heat the pipe 1st then move flame along to the centre of the fitting) until you see a ring of solder appear at the end, no other solder is required.
The old stop tap can be left if it's too difficult to remove, just extend the copper up a little and pop a full bore lever stop valve in above it after the bend to the left. That allows you to work on the rest at your leisure. The trick there will be making space behind the pipe to use tools as it's currently tight to the wall. Use compression fittings for the new stoptap if you can, pushfit can be a little temperamental on old pipe
Trick with the new pan connector is just make sure it's clean in there and that the rubber fins make a tight fit and it has a fall on it.