Supplementary bonding

[M1Chanical]

A friend of mine is installing a down stairs toilet and he's asked about earthing the pipe work.

I was just wondering when and where bonding is required. Is it dependant upon the type of consumer unit you have i.e. no RCDs?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Supplementary bonding is not required in toilets. End of.

 

[Risteard]

A friend of mine is installing a down stairs toilet and he's asked about earthing the pipe work.

Earthing is not bonding and bonding is not Earthing.

 

[JohnW2]

Earthing is not bonding and bonding is not Earthing.

The purposes are very different, but often inseparable - it's usually impossible to bond something without also 'earthing' it.

Conductors don't know why they have been installed or what labels people have attached to them.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

The purposes are very different, but often inseparable - it's usually impossible to bond something without also 'earthing' it.

Conductors don't know why they have been installed or what labels people have attached to them.

Kind Regards, John

Aside from Earth-free local equipotential bonding, whilst that may be true, it doesn't change the fact that the purpose of it is completely different. Incorrectly referring to bonding as "Earthing" will only add to that confusion. It isn't Earthing and should never be described as such.

 

[JohnW2]

Aside from Earth-free local equipotential bonding, whilst that may be true, it doesn't change the fact that the purpose of it is completely different.

That's what I said - your 'Aside from....' bit was addressed by my "usually" and I started my sentence with "The purposes are very different, but often inseparable".

The OP in this thread actually used the correct word (bonding) in his question, and in the title of this thread (give or taking the spelling/typing error ). He therefore presumably knew that his friend was using the incorrect term when he had asked about "earthing the pipework".

In any event, as the OP has been told, supplementary bonding is not required in toilets, so the whole matter is moot.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Now who's starting semantic discussions?

The purposes are very different, but often inseparable without also 'earthing' it.

If the purposes are very different then they (earthing and bonding) must be separable.

When would one need to bond something which was not already earthed?

 

[JohnW2]

Now who's starting semantic discussions?

It was Risteard on this occasion, soon after you gave the OP the answer to his question.

If the purposes are very different then they (earthing and bonding) must be separable.

Now that is semantic The purposes are obviously separable, but the effects may be inseparable.

When would one need to bond something which was not already earthed?

We've been through this umpteen times before, and I'm sure that you actually know the answers. For a start, as you know, one has to bond something which is "liable to introduce a potential" so that, at any particular point in time it may not be 'earthed' (and could not be regarded as a reliable 'earth' for something that needed to be 'earthed').

That's not just hypothetical - my next-door neighbour has an example. She has a copper oil pipe which runs along the outside of her kitchen wall, clipped to the wall just a fraction (less than 1cm) above the slabs of her patio, a patio which is known to flood (sometimes to the tune of an inch or two, occasionally more) during heavy rain (and to sometimes get overgrown with, sometimes wet, moss at the edges). It is main bonded (I was curious, so I looked!), and that's what I would have done (because of the 'liability' to introduce earth potential), but if you undertook tests it is very unlikely that you would pick a moment to do it when you would find any appreciable connection to earth (if you tested the pipe in isolation). That bonding conductor is not only bonding the pipe but, for the vast majority of the time, is also 'earthing' it.

Kind Regards, John

 

[M1Chanical]

Supplementary bonding is not required in toilets. End of.

You guys have left me a bit confused going back a forth between bonding and earthing and the actual definitions of each, I studied this stuff at college but I don't practice electrics.

But just to be clear, does anything need to be done with his pipe work from an electrical point of view?

Thanks

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Nope, not a thing.

 

[bernardgreen]

An electric shower ( 8 kW ? ) has ah exposed metallic pipe coming down from the ceiling to supply the water. Above the ceiling the metal pipe is connected by plastic pipe. No bonding to the exposed metal pipe.

Is it safe to rely on the CPC in the cable supplying electrical power to the shower ?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

To do what?

 

[M1Chanical]

Nope, not a thing.

Thanks all, for the clarification.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Now that is semantic The purposes are obviously separable, but the effects may be inseparable.

Mmmm.

That bonding conductor is not only bonding the pipe but, for the vast majority of the time, is also 'earthing' it.

The vast majority of the time it is not "also" earthing it; it is unnecessarily only earthing it and not bonding it.
If that is indeed the vast majority of the time it may be better not to earth it unnecessarily.

Is the pipe not earthed by the boiler CPC?
I would think an insulating section in the pipe would be a better solution.

What would you do in places that don't flood so regularly?
How frequently would be the deciding factor?

 

[EFLImpudence]

An electric shower ( 8 kW ? ) has ah exposed metallic pipe coming down from the ceiling to supply the water. Above the ceiling the metal pipe is connected by plastic pipe. No bonding to the exposed metal pipe.

Where did that come from?