Living without electricity

[bernardgreen]

how long will gas cooking carry on before it is banned?

A matter often discussed on an architecural forum, along with how long before gas is deemed as unfit for use in new builds.

Yes remember 3 day week, can't remember how we kept freezers going,

A water milll converted to a house by a friend had it's own ( heath robinson ? ) hydro electric supply which kept the house powered with about 3 kW of power. I do wonder if the present owners still use it.

 

[SimonH2]

... often no gas in high rise flats

See Ronan Point for why. AIUI, after that, the regulations required the building to be designed for a certain internal pressure if gas was to be allowed in the individual units - basically, if there's the possibility of a gas explosion, the walls should be able to withstand the pressure from it (I guess the assumption is that the windows will blow out acting as a relief valve) above a certain pressure).

... how long will gas cooking carry on before it is banned? Clearly not as safe as electric.

And yet, new builds are going up without support for electric cooking My mum looked at a new build and the developer had not installed a supply for a cooker as "it's gas" - penny pinching twit

A matter often discussed on an architecural forum, along with how long before gas is deemed as unfit for use in new builds.

And then we'll have another round of discussion on how to keep the lights on with the increased demand for lecky and fewer power stations At least they can store gas - apparently our local gas terminal spends a fair bit of time pumping grid gas back into the wells for storage.

 

[JohnW2]

....At least they can store gas - apparently our local gas terminal spends a fair bit of time pumping grid gas back into the wells for storage.

That sounds rather bizarre, unless you are talking about pumping of 'imported gas' (imported from countries afar) into nearby wells - can you explain a little more?

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

I guess the assumption is that the windows will blow out acting as a relief valve

Weak points that can be "blown out" while leaving the building structurally "safe" are used in some buildings.

 

[bernardgreen]

That sounds rather bizarre, unless you are talking about pumping of 'imported gas' (imported from countries afar) into nearby wells - can you explain a little more?

Last year the Rough Field storage was de-commissioned losing about 70% of the storage facility.

https://www.offshoreenergytoday.com/babcock-to-support-centricas-rough-decommissioning/

https://www.ft.com/content/68fa2c3e-55ad-11e7-80b6-9bfa4c1f83d2

The ft.com link may not work for everyone as it is a subscription site

 

[JohnW2]

Last year the Rough Field storage was de-commissioned losing about 70% of the storage facility.

Thanks, but I still don't understand what is/was being 'stored', and why.

The ft.com link may not work for everyone as it is a subscription site

I doubt that many of us have a subscription - so I can't comment on that one!

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

Thanks, but I still don't understand what is/was being 'stored', and why.

Gas is being stored. As used to happen in those massive gas holders ( gasometers ) that were in every large town.

There is not enough gas production / importation to meet peak demands so the "spare" gas produced / imported at off peak time is stored for use in peak times

 

[JohnW2]

Gas is being stored.

I obviously realise that

The question is "what gas?". As I said, it would only seem to make sense if gas imported from places afar were being stored under the Nortb Sea. As far as I can see, it would make no sense to take gas from a North Sea gas field and then pump it back into a (same or different) North Sea gas field!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

Last year the Rough Field storage was de-commissioned losing about 70% of the storage facility.

Because for at least 20 years UK governments have had no coherent energy policy, beyond hoping that "something will turn up"

Hence Theresa's panic buy of an atomic kettle paid for by the Chinese government and built by the French government.

The tories have no objection to state-owned utilities, as long as it isn't our own government.

The profits go back to the foreign governments, same as they do with our (foreign) state-owned railways and (foreign) state-owned water companies.

Madness.

 

[bernardgreen]

North Sea gas field and then pump it back into a (same or different) North Sea gas field!

I seem to recall that taking from a low pressure area and pumping into an area that could store at a higher pressure without too much leakage was considered as logical. It maybe that the Rough Field deteriorated due to high pressure storage creating too many leaks. Who knows ? and those that do may not be prepared to talk about it,

 

[JohnD]

Thanks, but I still don't understand what is/was being 'stored', and why.
I doubt that many of us have a subscription - so I can't comment on that one!

Kind Regards, John

Weakening our energy assets increases our dependence on foreign suppliers, such as Russia. There are countries that have to put up with Putin because they are so dependent on the availability of Russian gas, and the price he chooses to charge.

If you can't read the FT link (try it, as it is from June 2017) one of the things it says is:

"However, officials at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy said they were neither surprised nor worried by the loss of Rough, arguing that the market had coped well without it over the past year.

National Grid, which operates the UK gas transmission system, said in its annual winter outlook last week that it was confident there would be adequate gas supplies this winter despite the absence of Rough."
June 2017

Do you remember the gas shortage panic in the winter just gone? When our gas supplies nearly ran out?

"National Grid warns of gas shortage in Britain’s big freeze"

March 1st, 2018
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...gas-shortage-in-britains-big-freeze-86fmbvrhc

 

[bernardgreen]

Weakening our energy assets increases our dependence on foreign suppliers, such as Russia.

Ignoring the political undertones.

The UK has never been self sufficient in energy since the price of UK coal became more expensive than coal mined in Poland and shipped to the UK

 

[EFLImpudence]

The UK has never been self sufficient in energy since the price of UK coal became more expensive than coal mined in Poland and shipped to the UK

I wouldn't think that that is a definition of self-sufficient.

 

[JohnD]

Weakening ... increases our dependence ....

UK is a major trading nation. I have never claimed otherwise.

But government (absence of) policy has made our position needlessly worse.

Ignoring the fact that it's a result of political (non) decisions is futile and ignores the cause.

 

[JohnW2]

Weakening our energy assets increases our dependence on foreign suppliers, such as Russia.

Are you saying that the available rate of flow of imported gas is not high enough to enable us to deal with the 'shortfall' in real time, such that we have to import, and store, during Summer in order to satisfy our Winter requirements?

It was a technical/operational question I asked, and the various political discussions/comments which have ensued do not really help to answer it.

Kind Regards, John