What are the general rules when tradesman asks for a deposit?

[veedee]

I'm having a new central heating system installed in my property

The works total approximately £4K (for parts and labour)

The gas engineer has just asked me for a deposit.. They haven't stated the amount they require

However I wanted to know what steps should I take to cover myself? e.g. do not pay above x%

Should I ask where he is purchasing the high price items (e.g. boiler/rads) and perhaps pay for these directly as opposed to handing over cash?

I have never worked with the chap before and found him on the gas safe register. He set up a company which appears to have dissolved four years ago.

 

[JP_]

Don't pay anything up front. Don't buy anything yourself.

A tradesman should have an account with the merchants, so they should not need money up front. If you buy anything yourself, it is down to you to make sure it is not broken in transit or installation etc.

Get another quote or two. i wouldn't risk it.

 

[mrStat]

I charge for all materials above £500 up front. Like the consumer, we get knocked too as well. Check the terms of the contract, if it all goes south then you have to go to small claims and if the contract is pants, you can wave your money goodbye - Can you pay via a credit card? This is sometimes a way of protecting yourself by using the clout and protection of the Credit Card company.

All I can say is check a few traders out, don't look at just the first or the cheapest. It needs to be a clearly defined contract to cover who owns the goods and at what stages the ownership transfers. If it is simply a case of "pay X and i'll start the job" then walk away.

There is nothing wrong with paying upfront for materials in my opinion, but you do need to trust the supplier and additionally, make sure you have the paperwork in place to protect yourself. If you are worried or concerned in anyway, step away and get someone else. If you don't trust anyone, go with one of the big boys and pay the price in the future. Unfortunately there is no such thing as ESCROW for this stuff.

One thing to note, if you supply, the trader may put their hourly rate up somewhat. I know lots of companies and traders that use the markup on their materials to subsidise their wages and hourly rates, this is mainly because people baulk when they see high hourly rates - Unfortunately your boiler only makes up a small part of the costs, add the sundries and rest of the materials, plus time, vehicle, insurance, registration fees, training downtime, ACS training as well as holidays/sickness - Yes, it is expensive.

 

[Notch7]

It is always tricky regarding deposits, it relies on some level of trust so you need to happy about the gas engineer.

In some ways, it shows the engineer is managing the finances of his business professionally and Im sure he does the same for all his customers.

One big problem with not taking a deposit is the custoner coukd cancel the day before resulting in a potential loss of work and having to return materials.

With bespoke jounery deposits have to be taken, Ive issued deposit invoices upto £20k.

 

[ianmcd]

There has to be an amount of trust on both parts, remember he is completing the work and trusting you to pay him at the end, I only do installs for people that I know and getting large deposits is never a problem, I used to advertise but fed up with non-payers or those who decide they want to haggle on price after everything is completed

 

[muggles]

£4k all in is rather cheap for a full heating system. Are you confident you're going to get a good job for that?

Some companies take deposits, others don't. Personally I rarely do, but I know some reputable tradesmen who always ask for a deposit.

Remember that just as you've not employed him before, so he has never worked for you before. How does he know you're actually going to pay him? It runs both ways, and so some people feel the need to ask for enough money to at least cover the materials.

Don't hand over cash - it's not traceable and unless he's going to give you a proper receipt for it you can't prove you've given it to him. Bank transfer at least comes with a paper trail.

 

[FiremanT]

Don't pay anything up front. Don't buy anything yourself.

A tradesman should have an account with the merchants, so they should not need money up front. If you buy anything yourself, it is down to you to make sure it is not broken in transit or installation etc.
.
Get another quote or two. i wouldn't risk it.

Jesus wept. Try ordering a wardrobe from Wickes without a deposit. Try getting Sharps to fot a bedroom with no deposit, without signing uo to a credit agreement. I had a shop for 20 years, and very quickly started taking deposits. Not really for cashflow, but to make sure the punters were serious. Why should a plumber fit thousands of ££'s of kit without any real assurance that they will get paid. Why should he set aside days out if a diary, only to be cancelled at the last minute - and having to have to return product, and possibly pay a restocking charge. Always pay by cheque, bank transfer or card, and there can be no denability. Ask around for recomendations. That said, there are guys who will start without a deposit, but don't slag those that won't.

 

[durhamplumber]

Don't pay anything up front. Don't buy anything yourself.

A tradesman should have an account with the merchants, so they should not need money up front. If you buy anything yourself, it is down to you to make sure it is not broken in transit or installation etc.

Get another quote or two. i wouldn't risk it.

Bolox

 

[gas112]

£4k all in is rather cheap for a full heating system. Are you confident you're going to get a good job for that?

Really you can say that without seeing the job or know what is being fitted etc . and expensive means quality job that must mean everyone on these rogue trader programmes are top class tradesmen

 

[muggles]

Really you can say that without seeing the job or know what is being fitted etc . and expensive means quality job that must mean everyone on these rogue trader programmes are top class tradesmen

I never said expensive means a quality job, you said that. I might not have seen the job, no, but I know it's a 3-bed house in South London so a rough estimate can be made from that

 

[gas112]

no but you inferred that because of price that it may be an inferior job and as i said have you seen the actual house /job . Are materials more expensive in london than the rest of the country . Nope
Do you know how fast the guy who quoted is . Nope
Do you know what the guy who quoted overheads are . Nope
So to suggest he may not get a good job for price is totally unfounded

 

[Notch7]

Bolox

To Brexit

 

[JP_]

Bolox

Well, if you know and trust the trader and they ask for something upfront, then not a problem really. But a trader you have never worked with and didn't come recommended, then it is a risk. For bespoke items then it would be acceptable, but if you're just getting items that can be returned unopened and taken off the account, then where's he risk for the tradesman?

But to date, I have never been asked to pay a deposit for any work done anyway, I always get a bill (or cash request) when the work is finished. Price agreed upfront, paid at the end. The only time I was asked for cash in advance was for very specific things, like cash for foundation pouring on the morning before the work was done - but only because the builder needed to pay the concrete guy cash.

And a plumber friend told me before I did my first extension to never pay anybody upfront - if they don't have a trade account and don't trust you to pay them when the job is done, why should you trust them?

 

[JP_]

Jesus wept.

Maybe, we can all choose how we work, and all have reasons for wanting to keep things that way. As for the retail, yes that is normal, but there's a lot of paperwork that makes it legally binding and the consumer is, I think, better protected if they don't do the job.

Why should a plumber fit thousands of ££'s of kit without any real assurance that they will get paid.

A written agreement with quote for the work?

The last plumber I used was a nightmare to get hold of, he'd turn up, do a half arsed job, not what he was asked to do, then disappear for 3 weeks. My builder sub-contracted him so I didn't have to worry about it as I didn't pay anything upfront, but had I paid 50% deposit I would have been pretty concerned that he wasn't coming back. I heard my builder begging him to go and finish another job.

There are so many stories about people paying trades deposits and never seeing their money again.

You either need trust, or a good contract.

 

[veedee]

The tradesman has requested just over £2k (over 50% of the total amount) to be wired into his account for all the materials

I have never worked with him, he was not recommended, no contract, he was simply taken off the gas safe website..

Also, is there any concern regarding the fact that his business was dissolved a four years ago?

Jesus wept. Try ordering a wardrobe from Wickes without a deposit. Try getting Sharps to fot a bedroom with no deposit, without signing uo to a credit agreement. I had a shop for 20 years, and very quickly started taking deposits. Not really for cashflow, but to make sure the punters were serious. Why should a plumber fit thousands of ££'s of kit without any real assurance that they will get paid. Why should he set aside days out if a diary, only to be cancelled at the last minute - and having to have to return product, and possibly pay a restocking charge. Always pay by cheque, bank transfer or card, and there can be no denability. Ask around for recomendations. That said, there are guys who will start without a deposit, but don't slag those that won't.

Perhaps he could ask for a smaller deposit?

I wouldn't mind going to his supplier and purchasing/collecting the item myself as that would remove the risk...

Also the items are very standard items - e.g. boiler, pipes and rads. I would assume, that if they were returned unopened he would get a full refund

I never said expensive means a quality job, you said that. I might not have seen the job, no, but I know it's a 3-bed house in South London so a rough estimate can be made from that

This particular job is in North London but i am just splitting hairs